PST - Episode 74

[Lore]

This week:
1:02 - How are world bosses going to work in MoP?
4:40 - What can we do now that Heroic Madness is dead?
10:19 - Can AV ever feel epic again?
15:35 - Are we going to get more character slots per server?
16:20 - How can Blizzard make tanks care about hit and expertise?
23:22 - Is it possible to keep old content relevant, but not required?
30:24 - Can I still get Holy gear while questing as Ret in MoP?
35:10 - Why doesn't Blizzard split 10 & 25man achievements?

[leethaxor]

My 2c on the second question. If you stop raiding as a 25man raid group between now and MoP your akin to committing suicide. Why? You will have turn over, you can't recruit to a guild that isn't raiding. You can try but you end up saying "Yeah we raid, we're good. BUUUUT we aren't right now. We arent' for several weeks. So spend 25 bucks and hang out without in other video games." It doesn't work.

On number 3. Start twinking we have 1-2 hour av's sometimes. I like it.

On your last question I'm imagine massive block of text scrolling over your face saying something in legal terms.

[Kahmal]

Alterac Valley should go back to its old ways and become a World PvP like Wintergrasp. So what it takes over 4 days real battles do. The reward just needs to be equally worth it for everyone that contributed at least 10-15 minutes.

[Xista]

IMO they should implement another PvE-esque battleground that's 40v40 in a future patch of MoP. Then make both IoC and AV take hours to complete. Then have several random BG queues. Battlegrounds, and some awesome sounding name for the 40v40 PvE BGs.

Problem solved. Would fix people complaining about PvE battlegrounds in the normal rotation. Would give people with more time and are seeking a more large war type battleground something. And last but not least, another new shiny battleground

[Lore]

My 2c on the second question. If you stop raiding as a 25man raid group between now and MoP your akin to committing suicide. Why? You will have turn over, you can't recruit to a guild that isn't raiding. You can try but you end up saying "Yeah we raid, we're good. BUUUUT we aren't right now. We arent' for several weeks. So spend 25 bucks and hang out without in other video games." It doesn't work.

Except that if you're not raiding, you don't desperately need to recruit in the first place. It's a non-issue.

[Sagedin]

If I understand the current beta implementation it seems (at least for paladin) like you want to create a minimum amount of resources to have the buff following the big block up as much as possible. This could mean that even without capping your hit and expertise you can have that up 90+% of the time.

It then becomes the question whether you want to have that 100% guaranteed uptime (plus having that big block / WoG more often) or rather have additional passive mitigation in the form of dodge/parry/mastery.

I can see it happening that in the first tier of content the priorities will be:
- Cap hit
- Get expertise to a theory-crafted level where you have the mitigation buff following your big block / WoG 90+%
- Dodge/Parry/Mastery as currently

Second tier diminishing returns on dodge/parry/mastery become more apparent:
- Cap hit
- Soft cap expertise so you have the mitigation buff following your big block / WoG 100%
- Dodge/Parry/Mastery as currently

Third tier diminishing returns on dodge/parry/mastery are harsh:
- Cap hit
- Start aiming for the hard cap expertise so you have the mitigation buff following your big block / WoG 100% and additionally can refresh it earlier for more big blocks / WoG's
- Dodge/Parry/Mastery as currently

[yeezy]

Re: 10vs25achievementsI think it would be easier if blizz just implemented seperate statistics for 10vs 25 on your armory. That way you won't have people butthurt that they can't get all the points. But the first kill date and number of kills in each format for each boss would be stored in the stats page for wow progress to pull from

[Leucifer]

10:19 - Can AV ever feel epic again?

AV can still be a really good battleground and a TON of fun. It frequently depends on the groups.Two savvy groups that are reactive to each other and refuse to lay down and die for either side?.... oh yeah. Horrible nasty raging mess.

I agree with you Lore. You almost need to separate it from the other BG's and make the two giant battlegrounds into "war-grounds". Make it where killing the other boss is not an automatic win. That would be the easiest and quickest fix. Make resources and holding various locations worth buffs to each team. Increase the reinforcements a bit.

Really.... transform them into "PvP Raids".... with PvE elements that obey PvP rules (resilience is effective vs them) and give those PvE elementals meaningful value. In AV's case.... bunkers/towers get mini-bosses in each.... they can be capped.... or destroyed. Holding mines affords for repairs..... etc.

Just a thought or two.

[oddjobhat]

I really like the idea of a separate queue for wargrounds. AV and IoC could both become more epic and this would be a good place to put instanced versions of Wintergrasp and Tol Barad. It's really sad that wintergrasp has become a 5v5 battleground on my server when at it's peak it was around 100v100. I see the same thing happening to Tol Barad already and in MoP no one will even know what it is..

[Libellus]

35:10 - Why doesn't Blizzard split 10 & 25man achievements?

I'm of the view that there could be achievements at a guild level, rather than at an individual level. I do like the idea of not having the separate achievements for individuals, which simply list what raid size you got the achievement on and when (and it could also list at what time you did it on the other size), but I think you could have separate ones at a guild level.

After all, guilds do (not always) advertise themselves as one raid size or another and I think having an achievement to demonstrate that would be nice.

[Thebis]

On the topic of Other Things to do but Raiding maybe there could be things you do as a guild like Guild Activities that strengthen your guild as a group. Like playing other games with guilds and stuff

Maybe also adding your own handicaps, like I am going to go through heroic Dragon Soul with No flasks or maybe go drunk in game (or out of game) or other things, that your setting on your self in order to make the raid harder for you, so that you learn how to squeeze all the damage out of your class or perfect it as much as possible or just for fun.

Other things you can do could be like doing Transmog runs or other sort of Group activities like getting other weird achievements.

[steveh]

"...I love this question because it gives me an excuse to make words" LOL

<insert pointless argument about 10m versus 25m difficulty because Lore expects it>

Now for some meaningful contribution to this thread regarding "what to do after 8/8H." You can still indeed keep raiding and farming DS for the factor that Lore mentioned a few weeks back, the "I just like to raid and hang out with cool people." If people want to take a break, no biggie, just bring in some of your bench, go to 10m or do some achievement/mount selling. Plenty of people will give you that 100kg for getting that 8/8H done, or more for the guaranteed mount. The top guild on my server is apparently trying to get its stream site more well-known so they spam trade chat before their raid and tell everyone to watch them, once they get to 7/8 H done, they draw a random person in from the raid watching audience and lets them in for Madness H. Whatever works for your guild. Worst case if people just up and quit on you completely, you are certainly in an excellent recruiting position and can trial recruits at a rapid pace in your 1-2 raid nights.

Thought my guild isn't "done" with DS, I find that this is indeed the time in the expansion where people do what to go back and do all the old raids and achievement whoring/mount collecting/pet collecting. All the better to fly through that stuff with an organized guild run than to try to put together a half-guild/half-pug attempt.

[zombiefodder]

Between AV, Isle of Conquest, Strand of the Ancients and the new mine cart BG once MoP comes out, Blizzard has a solid foundation of War-grounds to set up. Would be a good Warm up event to do prior to raiding type thing. You could also do instanced versions of Tol Barad and Wintergrasp since none of those places will be of any use once MoP comes out.



Edit to include Tol Barad and Wintergrasp comment

[wow69369]

Wargames is one of the best ideas ive heard in about 2 pass years of playing. Although you need to make those games feel epic when you win.

[Libellus]

Although you need to make those games feel epic when you win.

They need to feel epic regardless of whether you win or lose. If all the satisfaction in a BG is one sided, then there is a disincentive for others to bother playing unless they're sure they're going to win.

[Aggathon]

You know... Lore... I've been trying to figure out why I haven't been able to get back into PvP since about Mid-WotLK (I got duelist in S5 and then got mad and stopped). And really, every time I've queued up... I've HATED BGs. It's been a combination of barrier to entry if you don't have any PvP gear and the random queue system. I HATE Queuing up and getting Isle of Conquest. I just really don't like that BG. I love WSG/AB/EoTS. Those are the ones I want to play. I hate that there's no incentive to running individual BGs any more, if you want the gear, you've gotta do randoms for extra honor and what not.

[Hightotem]

So with the latest blues posts looks like there will be no changes to raiding and it will remain the same as 4.3.

I bet subs will continue to decline with 10 man raiding being the preferred format as 10 man guilds don't contribute as much to realm communities like the bigger 25 man raiding guilds did.

Lore I commend you on fighting for your guild to remain 25 man, I know it's not easy at times and I wasn't able to maintain after 4.3 as LFR killed motivation (probably burnout) to do heroic content.