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Thread: Legendary - Massive MoP

  1. #1

    Legendary - Massive MoP

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  2. #2
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    If you look at the zergling pet, it has abilities already and they definitely are unique. Some of the ability names are the names of zerg upgrades in sc2 and the rest are obviously zergling themed. =) so i can imagine the bought ones will have unique stuff too.

  3. #3
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    About the rogue glyph: One of the least enjoyable parts of TF2 is spy checking everything... Can we expect this to carry over to WoW PvP now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyvar View Post
    About the rogue glyph: One of the least enjoyable parts of TF2 is spy checking everything... Can we expect this to carry over to WoW PvP now?
    No. It doesn't magically change what faction you display as, nor is it possible to pickpocket players.

  5. #5
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    I think you guys are way over estimating the number of people playing the beta. On gilneas I doubt there is more than 400 people on the realm at one time. If you do "c- [Class]" in the who dialog box I have rarely seen more than 30 people per class. usually it hovers around 15-25 for each class. The only exception is the monk when I tried figuring out how many monks there was last week I found around 150.
    The PVE realm is a bit more crowded but still had less than 1000 concurrent players when i checked. I guess another possiblity is the new server tech breaks /who but i didn't see any evidence that there was that many people unaccounted for - Other than the panda 1-10 zone I didn't feel there were that many people anywhere.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slyvar View Post
    About the rogue glyph: One of the least enjoyable parts of TF2 is spy checking everything... Can we expect this to carry over to WoW PvP now?
    I guess it may confuse people who don't use name plates. afaik the glyph breaks on damage so there would be no real advantage of the rogue using it over stealth.

  7. #7
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    Oh god...he's back.

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    I don't see why you're having a hard time with secondary stats. They always nerf the conversion rate as you level, so 480 crit isn't necessarily going to cause you to hard cap your crit again. They'll just balance the conversion rates for 3 tiers of gear, like they did for Cata.

    It will be interesting to see if it makes sense to gem secondary stats in MoP more than it does now, if they make secondary gems give more of a bonus overall.

    Wrath gems btw- The normal epic gem was 20, and the jeweler's gem (that got buffed) was 34. Now its 50 and 67. That makes wrath jeweler's gems about 70% better than the normal gems. (14 is 70% of 20). Cata gems are 34% better than epics, 67% better than rares. The increase is roughly double from one expansion to the next.

    The MoP conversion is almost 5 times, as mentioned. There needs to be a significant item boost, to prevent raiders from t13 being able to use their DS gear for starter raids in MoP. Idk if it needs to be this big, though.

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    About time you guys realized how reforging has ruined/weakened itemization.
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  10. #10
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    Nice to see Gannon back!

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    I prefer Chris as the moderator instead of Gary. You would think that if you have been gone a while and knew you were going to come back, that you would watch some of the older shows

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by feralminded View Post
    About time you guys realized how reforging has ruined/weakened itemization.

    Are you crazy? Reforging is an amazing system for customization. Yes, if you are bad then you just click a button on "reforgelite" or some other addon, get your results and end it there, but in reality there are situations where you want to reforge for less optimal stats in general, that just happen to be amazing for a specific fight. Reforging hasn't ruined itemization, it has made you much less dependant on BiS gear. However, it does not mean that you don't care about your gear itemization any longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valaras View Post
    Are you crazy? Reforging is an amazing system for customization. Yes, if you are bad then you just click a button on "reforgelite" or some other addon, get your results and end it there, but in reality there are situations where you want to reforge for less optimal stats in general, that just happen to be amazing for a specific fight. Reforging hasn't ruined itemization, it has made you much less dependant on BiS gear. However, it does not mean that you don't care about your gear itemization any longer.
    Really?? Ever since reforging itemization has become the most inane part of the game. Essentially all you do is take the highest iLvL item you can get and then reforge it to however you need. It's almost braindead and ultimately uninteresting compared to the itemization game we once got to play. It's essentially gone.
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  14. #14
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    Playing with reforging to get that 0.3% more CTC is kinda fun though...

    I don't bother with doing it by hand for anything else though, reforgelite is great for quickly making your reforges for 961 hit and 781 expertise, or 1742 hit rating while maximizing another stat.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombiefodder View Post
    I prefer Chris as the moderator instead of Gary. You would think that if you have been gone a while and knew you were going to come back, that you would watch some of the older shows
    This !
    Gary knows nothing, doesn't even play the game anymore. Go back to Swtor ! Get the guy with the glasses back !

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    Quote Originally Posted by feralminded View Post
    Really?? Ever since reforging itemization has become the most inane part of the game. Essentially all you do is take the highest iLvL item you can get and then reforge it to however you need. It's almost braindead and ultimately uninteresting compared to the itemization game we once got to play. It's essentially gone.
    That is so wrong. Some classes still have BiS items from Firelands... If you just disregard the secondary stats and simply go for the highest item level (unless it's a huge jump) then you are not really good at the game. If there is a problem here, it's not reforging, it's the fact that the primary stat (int/agi/str) is just SO much more important than ANYTHING else atm. Not to mention you completely ignored my argument regarding reforging differently for different boss-fights, that's just a better system than having to keep different sets of gear.

    Also, Fetzie, reforgelite can never get you to that CTC with perfect avoidance balance. You can only do that if you play around with reforging and gems. I find reforgelite to be a terrible addon anyway, it does an ok-ish job and helping you reach certain caps, but overall it does not optimize your reforging even nearly well enough.

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    Its fine to disagree, but to blindly and blatantly ignore the facts is not fine. The fact remains that our gear selection has been remarkably diminished post-reforging in principle because iLvl, or total item budget, is largely all that matters. I understand that for some classes in some instances some pieces of lower iLvL gear is better ... but it's nothing like it once was. Even in WoTLK you could find iLvL 200 items that were better than nearly anything until heroic ICC ... and then of course there were different set bonuses and you wound up mixing and matching all sorts of varied equipment depending on the fight/situation. Now everyone is wearing the exact same gear, just reforged/gemmed to their flavor with the exception being 1 or 2 items that blizzard either didn't make upgrades for (capes ... like wtf) or made crazy good procs on (some classes 2 pieces, some trinkets).

    Either way the diversity of gear used now is inarguably the worst it has ever been. It was highest in Vanilla (when things were just imbalanced ... hand of justice anyone?) and has slowly watered down since then to now where 90% of everyone is wearing exactly the same gear ... boooooooorrrrrrrriiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggg.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by feralminded View Post
    Its fine to disagree, but to blindly and blatantly ignore the facts is not fine. The fact remains that our gear selection has been remarkably diminished post-reforging in principle because iLvl, or total item budget, is largely all that matters. I understand that for some classes in some instances some pieces of lower iLvL gear is better ... but it's nothing like it once was. Even in WoTLK you could find iLvL 200 items that were better than nearly anything until heroic ICC ... and then of course there were different set bonuses and you wound up mixing and matching all sorts of varied equipment depending on the fight/situation. Now everyone is wearing the exact same gear, just reforged/gemmed to their flavor with the exception being 1 or 2 items that blizzard either didn't make upgrades for (capes ... like wtf) or made crazy good procs on (some classes 2 pieces, some trinkets).

    Either way the diversity of gear used now is inarguably the worst it has ever been. It was highest in Vanilla (when things were just imbalanced ... hand of justice anyone?) and has slowly watered down since then to now where 90% of everyone is wearing exactly the same gear ... boooooooorrrrrrrriiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggg.
    Hard to argue against this point, imo.

    It's extremely clear that ilvl is king. Higher ilvl means more <agi|str|int>, which are anywhere from 2 to 5 times as various secondary stats (though some sub-cap cappable stats can be somewhat closer than 2)...when you add in the ability to reforge away from "bad" secondary stats into "good" ones (frex going from haste to hit/exp/mastery as an enhancement shaman) it only makes that problem that much worse. Yeah, the "upgrade" might be a small one ("oh this has 50 more agi and I lose 100 mastery, but gain 200 crit and 100 haste...yeah that's a mediocre-but-obvious improvement"), but it's still an upgrade.

    I'm currently wearing a GARBAGE chest...one that there's ZERO chance I'd be wearing before reforging BECAUSE I can reforge the garbage stats in it to something more useful and because it has something like 80 more agi than the one I was wearing before. The loss of good secondary stats was easily offset by the gain in agi and ability to reforge the really bad one into something good.

    Gone are the days where you're in Sunwell grinding h-MgT for the Shard of Contempt, or (as feral mentioned) the Hand of Justice (moar windfury!) or even The Black Heart and how great it was on fights like Saurfang.

    Yeah, it could be annoying to grind them, but it was interesting that there were OPTIONS. It was a reason to care about more than the latest heroic raid tier...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    Gone are the days where you're in Sunwell grinding h-MgT for the Shard of Contempt, or (as feral mentioned) the Hand of Justice (moar windfury!) or even The Black Heart and how great it was on fights like Saurfang.

    Yeah, it could be annoying to grind them, but it was interesting that there were OPTIONS. It was a reason to care about more than the latest heroic raid tier...
    AMEN! HERE HERE!!!

    I think some of this could be mitigated by making the difference in ilevel lower, making different ratings important on gear. The next step up might be 20 more agi, but if the step up as worse secondary stats than the step down, the step down might still be better because you might be talking about 200 mastery instead of reforging a bad stat to 50 mastery making the difference 150 to 20 which is over a 7:1 mastery to agi ration, making the mastery much better.

    Gear choice have seemed almost non-existent in cata to me. Once you have access to whatever current ilevel tier you were working on, it just didn't matter. And there was usually only one option per tier. MAYBE two. The only difficult choices were "okay which tier piece is worst and has a better same-ilevel replacement so I know which 4 pieces to pick up for the 4 set" and those were still usually BLATANTLY obvious.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    AMEN! HERE HERE!!!

    I think some of this could be mitigated by making the difference in ilevel lower, making different ratings important on gear. The next step up might be 20 more agi, but if the step up as worse secondary stats than the step down, the step down might still be better because you might be talking about 200 mastery instead of reforging a bad stat to 50 mastery making the difference 150 to 20 which is over a 7:1 mastery to agi ration, making the mastery much better.

    Gear choice have seemed almost non-existent in cata to me. Once you have access to whatever current ilevel tier you were working on, it just didn't matter. And there was usually only one option per tier. MAYBE two. The only difficult choices were "okay which tier piece is worst and has a better same-ilevel replacement so I know which 4 pieces to pick up for the 4 set" and those were still usually BLATANTLY obvious.
    Unfortunately, Blizz is showing no signs of slowing stat inflation with crazy iLevel spikes. Just go look at some of the green MoP quest rewards. Right now, for example, the highest DPS melee weapons are in the 1000 DPS range (Tantacle sword is 1060.2 in the heroic version). But, level 85 BoE greens in MoP are doubling that number. Example:

    http://mop.wowhead.com/item=82215


    The numbers are just going to get more and more insane. The iLevel for that green is the same as Heroic DS drops... But the stats are double.

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