Feral/Guardian losing mobility
I'm sure if you play a druid you've looked at the MoP spec's and talents for druids, but a lot of people are missing the fact that Feral/Guardian are losing mobility with the new spec/talents. Its the first tier that I'm talking about. The current purposed talents are:
Feline Swiftness (15% plus to movement speed) which is currently a tier one in the Feral tree as Feral Swiftness. Displacer Beast (Teleports Druid up to 20 yards forward and activates car form and prowl) is new for Druids but seems to be a poor mans version of vanish or blink, as it does not clear you of dots, stuns or snares.
Wild Charge (Caster: Fly to an ally's position, Bear: Charge an enemy, immobilizing them for 4 seconds, Cat: Leap behind an enemy, dazing them for 3 seconds, Moonkin: Bound backwards, Travel: Leap forward 20 yards, Aquatic: Increase swim speed by an additional 200% for 5 seconds.)
Now I'm really confused by this choice of talents as Feral Swiftness (Feline Swiftness) and Feral Charge (Wild Charge) are and have been Feral talents/abilities since vanilla. Both talents have been required talents for as long as I can remember. But now Feral/Guardian players will basically have to chose which, or both, ability they've always had they will have to play without. This may not seem like a big thing to non-druid players, but think about it like this: You have to pick between moving 15% slower then you've ever moved, and an ability that is baseline utility for your spec. I'm not even including Displacer Beast in that because as it is right now the ability has little to no use, if its changed to clear dots, stuns, snares, or any combination of those, then it would have some utility.
I really like the extras on Wild charge but the fact that as Feral/Guardian I already have two of those (with upgrades available) and now I'm losing losing 15% of my movement speed just to keep them, and its being called a meaningful choice, does not sit well. This is not to mention that Feral Charge was upgraded in WotLK for Feral DPS and given a further talent to improve its utility for both Bear and Cat. From my experience as a Feral Druid player I would think that skills that have been so vital to the spec, for as long as the two in question have been, that they would be among the skills that should be "Baked" into the Feral/Guardian specs.
I honestly don't see your point. For Guardian/tank specs Feral Swiftness has always been a survival requirement and Bears never had the run speed (so they don't lose anything picking up Wild Charge). Sure, Feral spec loses out on either talent, but they currently are about the only melee class/spec in game that have both the 15% run speed AND a Charge ability, and that is mostly because previously they shared their talents with Guardians, who needed the Feral Charge.
On top of that, I would hardly call it 'vital' to your spec. Warriors have always done just fine without the run speed and other classes such as Rogues, Paladins, Shamans & DKs have done just fine without a Charge ability. Your argumentation only shows exactly meaningful the new talent choices are. You honestly want two talents, but can only pick one! You're just mad because thanks to the old 2-spec tree you had more than others and don't want to lose it in MoP.
Frankly, every class has choices to make and I think the Druid talents are pretty awesome. At least you don't have a talent that's a blatant copy of an entire Mastery system like Shamans do.
I can see the point. Instead of choosing what to gain, it feels like they choose what to lose.
Remember that cats get +15% movement speed from cat form now, too.
Last edited by Martie; 03-25-2012 at 06:39 AM.
Originally Posted by Kahmal
If I remember correctly, feral charge was put in in BC... not vanilla. I could be wrong. Lots of classes are losing abilities or simply having them put in as one of the choices for talents. Warriors for instance have had the "heavy repercussions" talent thrown around all over each expansion, and now have a weakened version as a glyph.
Also how is vanish + blink a poor man's vanish? Rogues have to use cloak of shadows and vanish in order to do what you are describing.
The 15% cat speed does kind of suck though... but even that used to be outdoor only. However druids probably have the easiest time of any class removing slowing effects so the fact that they also get a 15% run speed on top of that seems kind of off.
My only issue with this is ... are they removing the run speed enchant to boots? Because to me for bear at least it seems like a no brainer - take the charge and get run speed to boots.
Also feral charge has been in since vanilla
and yes martie, I too look at it as "gdi what am I being forced to give up here" but I definitely see the reason for it, bears NEVER had the run speed it was a cat only effect, so really cats are the ones who suffer the most, they lose 15% move speed and a charge, or 30% run speed and gain 15 seconds off charge cooldown.
PvE will take FS unless they really need Charge for some gimmick encounter.
PvP will always take Charge.
Was vanilla feral charge the same as the current rendition? Cause at least for the cat one I remember being aggravated about the daze portion because in many instances I would love to have warrior charge daze rather than stun.
In Vanilla you didn't have Charge for Cats iirc, it was a pure Bear talent.
And what spec are we discussing, Feral or Guardian? Because imho the importance of run speed/charging abilities are different for a DPS or tanking spec.
I think the 15% movement speed bonuses are becoming rarer overall. Paladins have it as a talent too, so the 15% that cats get baseline will be a tad more effective at setting you apart from the group.
All in all, I think the change may feel more troublesome than it actually is - the 30% that cats have now is nice, but when is it really effective in a fight?
Originally Posted by Kahmal
I agree with what Darksend says. My choice, since I will be Guardian only, is take the charge and enchant for run speed. You can't enchant for charges. I also don't believe that they would take run speed enchants out of the game. They might not add new ones with the MoP enchants but I don't believe they would remove the ones already in existence. If that is the case, depending on how good the MoP enchants are compared to earthen vitality and others, I might stick with the Cataclysm enchants for the run speed alone.
I don't look at it as losing anything as Guardian because we never had the cat run speed while in bear form to begin with. That makes this choice a no brainer for me.
Bears are strong.