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Thread: Protection Warriors?

  1. #141
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    Thinking about it, I would rather have SB up or the absorb and use a zerker to proc it than go without and pay for the heal. In fact if you do put SB up, chances are you'll be enraged soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  2. #142
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    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...47?page=18#347

    I was expecting this sort of glyph since they announce the new SBlock mechanic, but did not think they would make it 20 - thats OOOOOOOOOOOP. I bet this will get changed, still gonna be great at 10 rage.

    SBar looks a lot more compelling since this now viably allows you to chain SBlock with Sbar in almost any situation and is a legit rage dump. Would be really nice to see the numbers.

    I am torn about DS. One one hand, I hate the effect its going to have on AOE fights. On the other hand, its too good to be true for magic.

  3. #143
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    I do believe if they made these changes to rage then we would be able to get our 100% shield block uptime. This would kind of open the door on differing gear sets again. In my opinion, at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  4. #144
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    Thing is Shield block was our DP/Barksin/Bone shield equivalent, and with it now being our SD/Blood shield equivalent we're donw a CD, so hopefully they'll let Demo shout be. God knows where i'm gonna put it on my bars. not having to stance dance for stuff has torn all my stance dependant keybind efficient macros out the window.

  5. #145
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    I'm not even going to bother with macros until we're closer to launch. Mine are all in the same boat as yours for the most part, save for a few.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  6. #146
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    One of the reasons we don't always announce changes before they happen is that things can move pretty fast in beta. Even though I mentioned some Protection changes above, they are already out of date.

    Overall, the goal is to mix up Protection's rotation a little more. Prot warriors are used to lots of buttons, and we don't want too much waiting around. (For Arms and Fury, we can just flood them with rage, but with Protection the risk is that we hit 100% uptime of Shield Block, which turns it from being a short cooldown to a managed buff like Thunder Clap.) We also want to make sure tanks who execute their attacks with more skill are rewarded with better mitigation. To make this compelling, we think it needs to tie into Rage generation.

    As part of this, we're going to try Defensive Stance no longer generating Rage from auto attacks at all. Instead we'll have nearly all Rage come from special attacks while in Defensive.
    In addition to Shield Slam, we'll try Revenge and Devastate generating some Rage. Devastate will do so by once again being the ability that procs Sword and Board. For Revenge, we agree that the more rotational version has lost some of its old excitement. Revenge will generate Rage outright. It will no longer proc from blocks but will also have no cooldown so you will sometimes get multiple Revenges in a row.
    We're going to try Shield Block using the charge system that we've tried for a few abilities, such as the monk Roll. This one may feel too different, but we'll see. What it means is you can use Shield Block twice in a row, but then pay a 15 sec cooldown. (The first use will start its cooldown as soon as its used.) This mechanic should let you chain together two Shield Blocks but not keep it up 100% of the time.
    We think this rotation feels better and more traditionally Prot, but let us know how it feels to you.
    He's saying also that shield barrier will be 20rage/30%AP, 40rage/60%AP, 60rage/90%AP of an absorb. I like.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...47?page=23#454
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  7. #147
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    GC realizes most prot warriors aim for 100% uptime on the TC debuff right?

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    GC realizes most prot warriors aim for 100% uptime on the TC debuff right?
    The TC debuff is now 30 seconds of 10% less physical damage, so in order to keep it up it shouldn't require much maintenance- especially if we're going to have decent hit/exp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  9. #149
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    The sum of all the new changes actually seems like a step in the right direction finally. They seem pretty keen on never being able to keep SB up 100% but the new 2 charge system seems interesting at least. Making all our rage dependent on actual special attacks seems like hit cap /exp soft cap will be extremely mandatory and exp hard cap wouldn't be a bad idea either. Means our overall avoidance will be lower but if we can get some reliable use out of SBar it could end up being good.

    If we end up being fairly dependent on SBar I'm thinking stam stacking will be the standard MO though, simply to get as high AP as possible.

  10. #150
    I like most of the changes but the charge system just seems like one more thing to manage, I guess it's basically a 2 charge CD but today rage is a non-issue so we just look at one thing, the Shield Block CD, now we will need to look at rage and a CD. It just seems clunky, like the rage from AM isn't working out right. I think the problem is because defensive and offense (HS/Cleave) both use the same resource and we are used to spamming HS.

    Revenge having no CD sound more interesting but it could be bad not know what is up with dodge and parry.

  11. #151
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    None of it's implemented on beta yet as far as I can tell. Have not had a download prompt at least.

    EDIT: BUT, the servers are down, so maybe that's what's going in. If so I'll pop in and test the new features.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  12. #152
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    The charges on shield block are a blessing in disguise since we can afford to spend rage on things other than SB. It adds more depth to our gameplay outside of build up 60 rage, hit SB. You can actually hit SBar or HS without feeling bad for delaying block. It seems like we have a decent amount of CDs to chain together especially with ER, demo shout and trinkets before you even consider your major CDs. Revenge will become more useful as we gear up and gain more avoidance which is a gradual change to playstyle over the course of the xpac, similar to how dps warrs got to HS more through cata.
    Last edited by fengosa; 05-08-2012 at 02:07 PM.

  13. #153
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    Okay so some of the changes went through. It doesn't appear that shield barrier is tiered, and revenge/deva don't grant rage. Revenge still procs snb and devastate doesn't. Demo shout works well. So far improved, still not sure how I like it all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  14. #154
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    I'm not particularly impressed, i fear you could just macros SB into SS/Rev/Dev and be dune with it. We've got enough rage to keep it up close to 100% of the time but not enough that we'll end up clipping SB significantly by doing that or capping out on rage. if they want us to not use all of our rage on SB they need to either give us enough rage that keeping it up is trivial and our other dumps are required to not cap out, or put a cd on it.

  15. #155
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    The sum total of these changes may provide too much rage. We'll have to see. We still want to mess with Berserker Stance and possibly Enrage rage generation as well to make sure warrior rage isn't too static and predictable. We want there to be some Heroic Strike use.

    I don't really understand this you'll either have enough rage for 100% SB uptime and occasionally use a HS or you don't have enough rage for 100% SB uptime and almost never use HS outside of ultimatum procs. Extra rage from unpredictable stuff will just be pooled, glyph of unending rage is awesome for that.

    Guess I'll just wait and see what they come up with.

  16. #156
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    Thats why SB needs a CD. So that we can't just dump all our rage into it.

  17. #157
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    Don't think a CD will give nice gameplay, it would turn into using SB on CD 99% of the time. Having SB be limited by resource like deathstrike is limited by runes is more elegant, that way you're not punished by delaying it unless your resource is at its limit. The problem is that DKs also have runepower and blood runes as resource while warriors only have rage and that will limit the posibilities quite a bit.

    The only way I can see it going is dumping all our rage into SB/barrier and aiming for high uptime, seems odd that the designers wish for "some Heroic strike use". Guess the challenge will be squeezing as much rage out of the rotation as possible.

  18. #158
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    That's exactly what i think. Having a CD on SB is the only way i can see us spending Rage on something outside of SB(ar) its not gonna be fun game play, but if they want us to use rage on HS i can't see any other way bar giving us so much rage we can get SB and SBar up 100% of the time and still have rage to spare.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 05-09-2012 at 07:28 AM.

  19. #159
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    We're going to try Shield Block using the charge system that we've tried for a few abilities, such as the monk Roll. This one may feel too different, but we'll see. What it means is you can use Shield Block twice in a row, but then pay a 15 sec cooldown. (The first use will start its cooldown as soon as its used.) This mechanic should let you chain together two Shield Blocks but not keep it up 100% of the time.We think this rotation feels better and more traditionally Prot, but let us know how it feels to you.
    It sounds like they intend to put a cooldown on it that will effectively work exactly like the dk rune system. It didn't go in on the last build but if it did go live it wouldn't be so bad. The question is if the second charge starts it's 15 second cooldown after the first is refreshed or if they can be refreshing simultaneously.

  20. #160
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    That sounds nice would be 80% uptime if they refresh simultaneously. Read it a bit different at first but what you said makes sense

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