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Thread: Protection Warriors?

  1. #201
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    Our toolbox is a Marry Poppins carpet bag. GG.

    And yes Teng, the rotation system they have thought up for us is looking stupid and boring and i'm sure i'll just make a maccro or two that will make my tanking rotation equivilant to the 4.2 arcane mage. GC said he wanted to make tank rotations more like DK's: fun, interactive, and requiring some skill. Managing personal buffs and boss debuffs is none of those things. If i wanted to do that, I would play an affliction lock.

  2. #202
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    oh its like a DKs, just without the whole managing Deathstrikes and diseases. Also Stormbolt i was expecting something like the old Hammer of Wrath, No it looks like you are actually throwing a thunderbolt. Avatar's not quite so great, 12 seconds of 50% extar rage is nice and being all big bornze and unsnarable is cool, but i don't really feel the defensive benefit yet. Maybe once i get some more hit/expertist/haste it will.

  3. #203
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    I think the major goal was for it to be interactive though, and i don't really feel they're accomplishing that. Active =/= Interactive.

  4. #204
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    can anyone find GCs "goal for tanking" i recall it being from around last september? the only real skill component seems to me is wheter you want to pop Sbar or SB, Since against weak hitting mobs Sbar might actually be better than SB. Aslo can Sbar stack like Bloodshield can?

  5. #205
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    This is the one posted in December of 2010 where GC first talked about how the current threat model wasn't really what they wanted:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/1693171

    This was August 2011 where GC elaborated and talked about how they were planning to replace active threat with active mitigation so to speak:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/330...8_16_2011#blog

    This was the one from September 2011 where he elaborated on the new mitigation ideas:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/340...8_31_2011#blog

  6. #206
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    Challenging but not frustrating.......i think they've missed the mark with our current mechaincs, it's not really challenging, and their isn't much "risk of failure"

  7. #207
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    Well, as stated previously, how challenging are they really going to make it? Bottem line, they still gotta make some bank. What comes to mind here are those glyphs Lore is so fond of talking about that make your class "easier" but "not quite as strong"......

  8. #208
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    we don't have any skillshot or Inquistion type glyphs.

  9. #209
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    I meant in respect to our defensive mechanics.... though as a tank i guess that would just be straight bad. IDK

  10. #210
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    Done some messing about, I've currently trying the PVP gear, since it has a ridiculous amount of stats on it compared to the HC gear and have reforged for hot/exp caps and then parry. My god does having your shield slams always connect make life so much easier. I've also noticed that Strength gems give about the same amount of parry chance as parry rating gems making the latter redundant as as something you want to gem. I don't think parry from strength is subject to diminishing returns so it shouldn't be as hard as it is now to keep our parry/dodge rating balanced.

    EDIT: it appears Defensive stance produces NO RAGE from White swings at the moment.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 06-16-2012 at 03:17 AM.

  11. #211
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    OK so I did some maths and then compared our rage gens with druids, and i'm not sure i like the answer. As far as my limited snooping around our bear brothers they get 0.8-1.6rps from mangle, (crits however generate 400% normal rage) and get 2.4rps form white swings (which give 350% on crit). Warriors on the other had generate 2.5-7.5 RPS from our SS/Rev/SnB rotation.

    This kinda leads me to beleive that tanking warriors not getting rage from white swings is intentional. I really really don't like this. We're really going to be at the mercy of the RNG as to how much rage we get. THis strikes me as being really really bad as far as a design for a tank goes. as a warrior a single missed/parried/dodged shield slam could screw could mean no resources incoming for 12 seconds, as a druid you'd have to fail to connect 5 times to suffer the same starvation. and yes we;ve got things like zerker rage and our crit blocks, but a fair amount of that could be wasted: you could proc enrage just after you put SS on CD and if we're not lucky with rev or SnB procs were not gonna get another rage gen until the next SS 6 seconds later, by which time our 5 second enrage will have worn off. Warrior rage gen is just too dependant on landing those rage producing shield slams, far too many eggs in one basket

    On and it also totally screws over DPS warriors going def stance to emergency tank anything.

  12. #212
    I thought I had read somewhere that parries still gave rage, but misses/dodges don't... is that not the case anymore?

  13. #213
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    Parry and Dodge do give you rage indirectly; they let you use Revenge, but if you don't press the button you don't get the rage.

  14. #214
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    Just random question, for threat (when tanking a boss) is it worth it to use retaliation? I've been trying to get a good rotation down so i can keep up threat with just about any class, but I'm struggling against a druid (gms wife who has 3 tanks...pally warrior and druid now,) who under gears me by a little. He's the one tank I've been struggling against lately. Granted both his pally and war both out gear me substantially, so he knows what he's doing. (Both have heroic gear and a 400+ ilvl.)

    So i guess my question is, what can i do to improve threat? Its near impossible to keep up if I'm not getting hit because lack of rage. Is recklessness worth popping in the beginning?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Parry and Dodge do give you rage indirectly; they let you use Revenge, but if you don't press the button you don't get the rage.
    so the fact that you have to do things in order to get resources is the problem? I don't see the problem it forces warriors to use their offensive abilities in order to use their defensive, its a good substitute for the horrible threat system
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  16. #216
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    I was trying to infer that the event of a parry occurring doesn't give rage, but allows the us of something that would generate rage. I was not actually complaining about that bit. Though the fact we can't stop DPS without sacraficing our own survivability is kind of bum.

    EDIT: the parry revenge thing is actually one the few bits i like about how we presently gain rage, I just wish it wasn't so damn dependant on getting lucky with sword and board procs.

    @LTranger, Retaliation generally isn;t worth much as it dodge/parried attack won;t trigger it and bosses hit kinda slowely, it generally won't hurt, retaliation is gone in MoP. Recklessness is nice if you boss aggro as the extra damage taken stack vengeance faster and give you more rage, the 50% crit aint bad either. the loss of the increased damage taken is kinda a two edged sword in MoP
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 06-20-2012 at 09:31 AM.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    OK so I did some maths and then compared our rage gens with druids, and i'm not sure i like the answer. As far as my limited snooping around our bear brothers they get 0.8-1.6rps from mangle, (crits however generate 400% normal rage) and get 2.4rps form white swings (which give 350% on crit). Warriors on the other had generate 2.5-7.5 RPS from our SS/Rev/SnB rotation.

    This kinda leads me to beleive that tanking warriors not getting rage from white swings is intentional. I really really don't like this. We're really going to be at the mercy of the RNG as to how much rage we get. THis strikes me as being really really bad as far as a design for a tank goes. as a warrior a single missed/parried/dodged shield slam could screw could mean no resources incoming for 12 seconds, as a druid you'd have to fail to connect 5 times to suffer the same starvation. and yes we;ve got things like zerker rage and our crit blocks, but a fair amount of that could be wasted: you could proc enrage just after you put SS on CD and if we're not lucky with rev or SnB procs were not gonna get another rage gen until the next SS 6 seconds later, by which time our 5 second enrage will have worn off. Warrior rage gen is just too dependant on landing those rage producing shield slams, far too many eggs in one basket
    Dear Tengenstein,

    Thanks for your constructive comment. Though my thoughts are that does not have to be neccesarily bad for protection warriors to have some RNG on their rage income. First of all, shield block has (some sort of) a cooldown, which prevents you from having 100% up-time. Blizzard stated that it is indeed the intention of not being able to have a 100% up-time on shield block, cause then it would just feel as a mandatory buff like Thunderclap.

    If we don't have a 100% up-time, there will of course be moments that we don't have shield block up. It would not make sense if we would be two-shotted when that happens, that does not sounds as the intent.

    If we then look at the odds of the situation you described: Nót having zerg rage available, nót having battle/commanding shout available, nó parry's, no dodges and no critical blocks and then having your shield slam miss/parry/dodge. Well, sure it will happen at some point troughout a fight, but it is unlikely that it would be very common.

    And íf it happens, we are not dead right away, you can see your shield slam miss/parried/dodged, you can take a look at your current rage, and then you have still have some viable options left. For example, demoralizing banner, demoralizing shout, shield wall and even shield barrier when you do have some rage. (just not enough for shield block, which is where we talk about)

    I have not tested this in beta though. (currently leveling a new warrior toon there) So it is still dependant on the exact numbers. But as a general thing, having some RNG in rage income is not bad per se. And it makes expertise an interesting option, which will make gearing more interesting as well imho.

    Kind Regards,
    Roughrock

  18. #218
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    I've been reforging for hit cap and 26 expertise thus far on beta. Feels as though (semi-) dependable rage generators will be of more survivability benefit than the loss of Dodge/Parry/Mastery needed to attain it.

    Side note: Are you sure Reck still increases damage taken? I could have sworn it no longer stated it did in the tooltip in the current build.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raysere View Post
    Side note: Are you sure Reck still increases damage taken? I could have sworn it no longer stated it did in the tooltip in the current build.
    As far as I know, the extra damaga taken from Recklessness has been removed quite a while ago in beta.

    Roughrock

  20. #220
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    It seem silly to have two limiting factors on how often we can use shield block. So we are limited by our RPS and the actual cooldown on shield block?

    I would think a more entertaining system would be to allow us to generate slightly more rage in order to reward a good rotation with the ability to possibly throw in either a few extra heroic strikes or a shield barrier.

    If he limiting factor overall for shield block is our RPS what's the point of even having a cooldown on it? Or do we generate enough rage when hit/exp capped in order to keep shieldblock on cooldown?

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