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Thread: Protection Warriors?

  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emsarrev View Post
    I'm assuming Parry > Dodge because of Glyph of Hold the Line?
    Honestly as long as the other requisites appear met I wouldn't see why not. I'd be first concerned with hit/exp cap, then work on the other reforges or what have you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  2. #262
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    Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe parry gained from STR isn't subject to DR. In turn, each point of parry pushes more avoidance of the table than dodge does. So even without the glyph parry pulls ahead.

  3. #263
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    Base strength is not subject to DRs, Strength from all other sources is. The DR curves for parry and Dodge are no longer the same. Dodge falls off faster than Parry now. Dodge will cap out just before 66%, at that point you would need an infinite amount of dodge rating to increase your dodge%, Parry on the other hand doesn't cap out until around 235.5% this means that at low levels of dodge say 10% you want around 20% parry and as your didge improves you want even more parry, up to 3 tomes as much parry chance as you have dodge chance.


    The HtL glyph has nothing to do with it.

  4. #264
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    Alright, cheers for the information I hadn't really kept up to date with the technical aspects.

  5. #265
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    So now the question is, who's gonna write out the full class guide for mists? 1-2-3 not it!

  6. #266
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    Spec: Take Avatar, all others are optional
    Glyphs: HtL, HR, are prolly the highest DPS
    Meta: Eternal
    Gem: Avoidance for TDR, Expertise/hit for spike reduction, stamina for TTL and Mastery for everythign
    Rotataion: Keep Weakened Blows up, SS>Rev>Dev, Shout the GCD before SS's CD is up

    Job done.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 08-19-2012 at 06:34 AM.

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Spec: Take Avatar, all others are optional
    Glyphs: HtL, HR, are prolly the highest DPS
    Meta: Eternal
    Gem: Avoidance for TDR, Expertise/hit for spike reduction, stamina for TTL and Mastery for everythign
    Rotataion: Keep Weakened Blows up, SS>Rev>Dev, Shout the GCD before SS's CD is up

    Job done.
    I've seen the recommendation to go with Storm Bolt for bonus damage; Avatar is nice in situations where you need "omg moar rage nao" but is it THAT useful as the general purpose?

    I'm going to be running with this spec more than likely:

    Juggernaut, Impending Victory, Disrupting Shout, Shockwave, Safeguard, Storm Bolt (maybe Avatar)

    For gemming I plan to go mostly hybrid, I think. Right now that's looking like:

    Blue: Puissant Wild Jade (+160 Mastery/+120 Stam)
    Red: Defender's Imperial Amethyst (+160 Parry/+120 Stam) or possibly even Guardian's Imperial Amethyst (+160 Expertise/+120 Stam)
    Yellow: Fine Vermillion Onyx (+160 Parry/+160 Mastery) or possibly Keen Vermillion Onyx (+160 Expertise/+160 Mastery)

    If possible I plan to play with this a bit more but I'm no theorycrafter.

  8. #268
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    Stormbolt is fine for where you need an extra stun, however as prot warriors our main concern is survivability, and a very large part of that is linked to Shield Block and Shield Barrier Uptimes, which is pretty much directly proportional to Rage generation. Not only is Avatar a huge chuck of rage, a good 80% of our rage income is affected by it assuming you have the worst run of SnB and Rev procs you're still gonna generate an extra 27 rage with it. worst cas scenario its half an extra shield block.

    Stormbolt on the other hand has a hidden rage cost. I know it says its free, and it is, but you have to consider that prot warriors are a GCD locked class. We do not have empty GCDs. so in order to use Storm bolt we have to sacrafice either a Shield slam, Devastate, Revenge or Shout, which is actually pretty aweful. I calculate i get about 4.1RPS from GCD abilities so on average a GCD is worth 6Rage, so using stormbolt on CD will cost me a tenth of a shield block.

    Stormbolt does 400% weapon damage, Devastate does 220%+meh so assuming you slip it in place of a devastate your getting less than 180%weapon damage bonus. Avatar on the other hand is a 20% increase 11% of time to everything. Weapon damage just doesn't scale well enough with AP for us to really care about it. with my knapkin maths we need more than 5AP to increase our weapon damage by 1, compare that to how well SS or Rev scale. and of course you can line up every Avatar with Skull banner.

    In fact if you really wanted more DPS you'd take avatar and turn the extra rage into executes. which as prot hits like truck, on steroids, that fell from orbit, and is made of neutrons. we're talking 500k crits here.

    Blood bath is likely the best DPS CD, Avatar is the only defensive CD, and Stormbolt is the utility choice, anywhere where the stun can be used it will shine, but for survivabilty and DPS it falls behind the other choices.

  9. #269
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    I think the 90-tier talent choice may be more dependent on how the fights and tank mechanics work out in practice for each new raid. If there's a lot of Warmaster-style "zomg sapper!" mechanics, Storm Bolt will more than pull its own weight in utility, depending on your raid comp.

    If we don't need the toolbox I'll gladly take the extra rage and damage, of course.

    edit: severely ninjad while eating.
    Last edited by Travelsize; 08-19-2012 at 08:39 PM.

  10. #270
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    I agree but there are a alot of better place to talent for extra stuns than stormbolt. It really needs buffing for prot (or avatar needs nerfing). Stormbolt is just in a bad place of scaling badly with AP, Prot having low weapon damage, and going up against what is a nigh mandatory tanking talent. COncussion Blow scaled really well with AP, had a huge threat modifyer, and was a mandatory talent for vigilance and was pretty much outshone every other choice.

  11. #271
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    So do we agree on a stat priority? Capped melee stats > all? Parry over dodge for glyph of HTL? Does I cares about mastery since SB will be up near 100% on melee heavy fights?

    Edit: Also the other part of it; stam gems again?
    Last edited by Dreadski; 08-21-2012 at 09:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  12. #272
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    *Double post os pro*

  13. #273
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    I wouldn't agree on that at all as far as green stats go Mastery&gt;all, if you need more EHP becuase the bosses are 3/3shotting you if you're finding damage intake too unpredictaple get more hit/exp, if you're finding you're taking too much damage overalll get avoidance and you want maybe twice the parry chance as you want dodge chance.<br><br>Mastery gives critical block and Block, the Block has some DR, the critical block doesn't.

    from what limited raid testing i'bve done i haven't needed stam gems, I have been using 1 stam trinket, but for the most part on normal's you won't need stam gems unless you go for some wierd 1 tank instead of two strategy or if want to under gear it.

  14. #274
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    I think "need" is somewhat subjective, especially with respect to normal raids. "Optimal" is a better question, and really needing stam comes down to what healers look like. If mana is close to irrelevant or at least easily managable if you are able to keep your rotation up then... ya stack stam for all umpteen billion reasons that have been stated before, especially since passive CTC will be neigh impossible.

    OBVIOUSLY though hit/expertise to their relative caps/useful values will be the priority at first though. The question is what to go after that. My gut says stam unless healers are in a bad way with mana.
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  15. #275
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    Need an incredibly subjective term. I'm as yet not willing to say where i would place stam becuase i don't know how much we're gonna get off gear, and if there is a "magic" threshold where enough is enough and more is just manasponging, and if what we get off gear is enough or if we;re gonna need to supplement it with gems.

    I will say that Mastery>hit/exp for rage gen, even at realtively low levels of stats, the whole 10rage off critcal blocks really does make mastery our king stat

  16. #276
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    I think at this point I am going to shoot for hit/exp caps simply because they are multi purpose and I hate missing so much. I'm sure mastery is better point for point, but given that hit/exp have a hard cap that is fairly easily reached it will make my life easier and from then on I can focus on mastery.

    Overall I'm not a fan of losing stats by gemming stam so I'm hoping I can avoid it completely and just use a stam trinket.

  17. #277
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    I'm seeing a lot of advice saying that we should gear and reforge for Hit/Exp and gem primarily Stamina, so unless I hear otherwise I'll probably do something similar. Gem-wise I'm now thinking:

    Blue: Stam (Solid River's Heart)
    Yellow: Stam/Mastery (Puissant Wild Jade)
    Red: Expertise/Stam (Guardian's Imperial Amethyst) until Cap, Parry/Stam (Defender's Imperial Amethyst) afterwards

    Gear-wise it looks like I'm going to be mainly looking for tank gear that has Hit/Exp and one of Parry/Dodge/Mastery rather than two avoidance stats. Gear priority seems to be Exp > Hit > Mastery >= Parry > Dodge, with Dodge being all but useless.

  18. #278
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    OTHERWISE!

    Mastery is definety without a doubt ahead of hit/expertise in terms of average damage redcution and RPS. as long as the boss is meleeing you.

    I'm still unsold on the idea of gemming stamina. bosses just don't seem to be meleeing hard enough

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    OTHERWISE!

    Mastery is definety without a doubt ahead of hit/expertise in terms of average damage redcution and RPS. as long as the boss is meleeing you.

    I'm still unsold on the idea of gemming stamina. bosses just don't seem to be meleeing hard enough
    The main thing seems to be Sha of Fear's "Thrash" mechanic for the gemming stam. I'm still seeing people either say Mastery isn't great because it has DR or something, and as you said Mastery > Hit/Exp. Nobody seems to agree right now

  20. #280
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    Mastery doesn't have DRs, Block from mastery does have DRs, which most of the time you don't care about due to SB, critical block has no DRs.

    IF Thrash works anything like Chamaeron's Double attack i'm not really all that fussed unless 3 blocked attacks can one shot me. and gemming whats best for one mechanic on one fight isn't what you should gem for all fights.

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