MoP Loot

[Lore]

I hope it's tradable, that might smooth things out and limit the amount of vendor trash things become; you can bargain in raid and not be given crap; unless of course you do a roll on a boss that you need no gear off of - the people will give you crap for rolling in the first place.

My understanding is that there is no option to roll or not. The system decides everything.

I don't think people will get angry that there are 25 people in an LFR, though you may see more groups pulling bosses before the group fills out.

[Ion]

Be nice if we could queue in w/10-13 people from our guild and just 10-13 man it...

[Theotherone]

My understanding is that there is no option to roll or not. The system decides everything.

I don't think people will get angry that there are 25 people in an LFR, though you may see more groups pulling bosses before the group fills out.

The first part is good, that will ease a lot of tensions.

The second I didn't think of...but I like that - thanks.

[Lore]

It's also possible that if they start having those sort of abuses pop up, the 3-6 number could become smaller as the groups get smaller. Maybe if you have 23+ people you get 6 pieces, but if you try to pull with 15 you only get 3, or something.

[Bigbad]

What if you que up as guild and when the boss is at 1% 20 people leave the raid, would that give the 5 left garunteed loot?

[Ion]

It's also possible that if they start having those sort of abuses pop up, the 3-6 number could become smaller as the groups get smaller. Maybe if you have 23+ people you get 6 pieces, but if you try to pull with 15 you only get 3, or something.

I'd still be ok w/that if I could choose who the 15 people were.

People have been 20 manning the pvp bosses since there were pvp bosses to 20 man...it'd be kind of amusing to have this as an option for LFR-level raids.

[Pagezero]

Hopefully they'll just make it "tier shoulders" instead of "warrior, shaman and hunter tier shoulders"...it's retarded that our paladin has 3 410 chests, our priest has two and our warlock has one when three of us on the prot token have seen one all tier.

I agree, for both Fireland and DS we have had the same exact problem, 16 Yor'sahj and Hagara Kills, seen one Protector glove token and one shoulder token.

[Takethecake]

Generic tier tokens would be the best news of the expansion for me.

[Lore]

I think for logistic purposes it still makes sense to have it separated out by class for 25-mans, just because 20-25 people all wanting the same item is a colossal pain in the ass. Honestly it might make the most sense to have 3-4 tokens in 25man and just 1-2 in 10man.

[Lore]

I decided to poke around a bit in a spreadsheet to try and figure out a spread that could work (using the spreadsheet so I could move stuff around graphically). It actually works really well if you stick with the 3-token system (at least in 25-man -- I still think there's merit in dropping to 1 or 2 tokens in 10man), move Hunters from Protector to Conqueror, and add Monks to Protector.

Here's what I started with:



Each square is one gear set. So, Death Knights have one DPS set and one tanking set, druids have a Balance, Feral, and Resto set, Hunters only have a single DPS set, and so on. I'm assuming that Feral/Guardian Druids will still be sharing a set, as will Brewmaster/Windwalker Monks.

For illustration purposes, here's how things work currently:


So there's 6 total sets of gear spread over 3 classes on Protector and Conqueror, and 7 total sets of gear over 4 classes on Vanquisher. If we were to just add the Monk onto Protector or Conqueror, that'd bring it to 8 sets over 4 classes -- workable, but it does put the developers in a weird position. Either the token they put it on gets a higher drop chance than Vanq (which still needs a higher drop chance than the 6/3 token), or they can give it an even drop chance to Vanq at the cost of making it harder for those classes to get tier sets for offspecs. That's probably acceptable in the grand scheme of things, but it'd still be frustrating to players of those classes and there's probably a better solution.

So I started mixing things around, and came up with this:


Oh hey, that looks nice.

All I did there was move Hunters from Prot to Conq, and add Monks onto Prot. That means that every token has a total of 7 specs on it, with Prot spreading it over 3 classes while Conq and Vanq spread it over 4. Prot will still be in slightly less demand, but not terribly so, and every class there can use offspec gear. So whether they decide to give it a lower drop rate than the others or not doesn't have nearly as large of an impact.

[Ion]

Monks have 3 specs.

Edit: Druids have 4 too...not sure if they're going to itemize them differently though.

[Lore]

Monks have 3 specs.

I'm assuming that Feral/Guardian Druids will still be sharing a set, as will Brewmaster/Windwalker Monks.

I don't see much reason to itemize Ferals/Guardians or Brewmasters/Windwalkers much differently in terms of stats -- they're still going to want agi rings/trinkets/necks/cloaks/weapons, which means the only difference would be the set bonuses... and it'd just cause way more problems than it'd fix to have two identical sets of gear with different set bonuses. Especially since that then opens up the question of "why not have 3 sets for Warlocks" and so on.

But if they did decide to go with 4 sets for Druids and 3 sets for Monks, things wouldn't change much.

[Ion]

The concept of "some but not all classes" tier tokens is out-dated anyway.

25 mans get more drops to balance out the perceived "problem" of everyone wanting them...that's why people have loot rules. The more serious problem is where half your raid has all of their offset pieces before the other half has their main set ones because of "bad RNG." One problem can be solved w/out the game intervening...the other cannot.

[Lore]

25 mans get more drops to balance out the perceived "problem" of everyone wanting them...that's why people have loot rules. The more serious problem is where half your raid has all of their offset pieces before the other half has their main set ones because of "bad RNG." One problem can be solved w/out the game intervening...the other cannot.

I would rather have the second problem than spend half of my raid night trying to decide which of the 25 people in the raid should get the 2-3 tokens that dropped. The logistical overhead of an "everyone wants this" item is a nightmare. They tried it in ToC. It was terrible.

You could argue that that's just a problem of the loot rules players have in place, but when you're poking at things that have been established for 7+ years, you need to be extremely careful.

[Aggathon]

I would rather have the second problem than spend half of my raid night trying to decide which of the 25 people in the raid should get the 2-3 tokens that dropped. The logistical overhead of an "everyone wants this" item is a nightmare. They tried it in ToC. It was terrible.

You could argue that that's just a problem of the loot rules players have in place, but when you're poking at things that have been established for 7+ years, you need to be extremely careful.

There's established ways to speed up the "everybody wants this" item stuff, but I agree that as a loot master in a 25 man guild that's incredibly frustrating. What about a compromise: 25 mans drop 3 tier tokens with different classes, 10 mans drop 1 tier token for everyone?

Although I also will say, when doing a loot council, I LOVED it when 3 of the same tier token dropped, because they you could just pick the 3 highest. If 25 mans still drop 2-3 tier pieces, then it's a lot easier to just keep track of who's gotten what and just keep going down the line pretty much per boss. I don't think an all-class token would be awful, it would probably suck for the first few weeks then kinda settle out after that. Hell for the first few weeks you could probably just do /roll if you don't have a tier piece yet!

[Lirron]

You could argue that that's just a problem of the loot rules players have in place, but when you're poking at things that have been established for 7+ years, you need to be extremely careful.

Having a suitable raiding distribution addon will come in handy and the only one that pops into mind is EPGP system, however, even that can be a pain in the rear, as you have to normally use "points" on your gear etc.

I suppose it's a manual thing and/or another obstacle that might (possibly???) be solved by trading, should a MS dps/tank/healer needs said item.

[Pagezero]

The logistical overhead of an "everyone wants this" item is a nightmare. They tried it in ToC. It was terrible.

Don't you use DKP or something? Worse case just make a list a rotate around it, I am just frustrated like Ion seeing many people getting second and third tokens when the three of us on the Protector token have seen a single token for two slots. DS made it feel even worse because all 5 tokens were drops and there was a SINGLE offset slot option.

Like your idea of 25man having 3 or 4 token types and 10man having 1 or 2 types.

[Lore]

What about a compromise: 25 mans drop 3 tier tokens with different classes, 10 mans drop 1 tier token for everyone?

That's what I was suggesting earlier :P

[Fetzie]

What about a compromise: 25 mans drop 3 tier tokens with different classes, 10 mans drop 1 tier token for everyone?

That's what I was suggesting earlier :P

And what I've been suggesting for the last 3 months

[fengosa]

One potential issue with a single token for 10 mans is whether or not guilds would leave 25 man formats or not for a single boss if they know the can guarantee an item for any person. Say you want to gear your dragonwrathed mage, do you run it on 10 man for him to get geared? As a 10 man raid team can you do 5 alt runs for 2 weeks and get your mains completely decked out? I think for those reasons alone a 2 tier token system makes more sense.