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Thread: So, what's currently the best rogue spec, PVE DS Raiding.

  1. #1
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    So, what's currently the best rogue spec, PVE DS Raiding.

    I get the 397 daggers when I get home from work ( WOOOOHOOOOO ) Now I notice they have a little buff to SS and RS. I'm pretty sure this is to get around the mechanic that combat rogues need a big slow offhand.

    But I was thinking does this mean combat will overtake assasination? Or has it already tovertaken assassination? I ask because I spent quite a while on the training dummy with my rogue mate who is slightly worse geared but doing exactly the same dps in combat spec.

    So, what spec are you lot running?

  2. #2
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    Combat rogues were largely favored for much of Firelands purely due to the cleave from Blade flurry, and being able to put out competitive numbers on single target fights. Dragon Soul seems to be much of the same, although Subtlety can do quite well on some encounters as well (Morchok in particular - just feint and cloak the ooze phase and stay on the boss 100%).

    In all theory crafting so far, Assassination seems to be falling behind, and if you're planning on doing any progression on Ultraxion, you'll probably want to be Combat.

  3. #3
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    Combat overtook Assassination early in firelands and it's still pretty strong, Played well Subtlety is ahead of Assassination too if you you get on the bosses ass

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    Cheers for the replies!

    I never thought of the cloak + feint idea, will give it a go thanks. I went combat in the end and it is significantly better, topping out our raid dps on every boss now by quite a bit where as I used to just sit around the same dps as the other guys. Kicking the shit out of most people in raid finder too but I think that is more down to raid finder types being a lil bit lazy and sloppy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Played well Subtlety
    Played well sub = t11 ret meets t12 frostmage + t13 feral, it's just that hard to play rewarding.

    Combat's strength just depends on the fight, everytime you can cleave (Gunship, heroic Zon'ozz) it's awesome.

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    So, what's currently the best rogue spec, PVE DS Raiding.

    The first 4 fights, you can do any rogue spec and do alright, though Morchokk favors Sub and combat and sun is still better than Assassination for all of them

    The last 4 fights pretty heavily favor combat.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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  7. #7
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    So I'm curious aswel. what is the best overall spec? sure you can spec to a certain spec for a certain boss but IMO that would only be needed on HC. what spec preforms the best overall and is the easiest for players to access ?

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    Combat. Boring as hell to play, but it's easy, puts up good numbers, and is really good for target switching fights, of which there are many, and Ultraxion. Sub is slightly better on a couple fights, but much much much harder to play well, and combat still works well enough on those fights.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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  9. #9
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    On my rogue, combat is only ahead by 500 DPS or so (out of 30k-ish). But I find combat to be much harder to play optimally than assassination. Do you RS on every 4 CPs and only 4CPs? Do you hit AR and KS on every cooldown, doing your best to avoid energy capping?

    I actually perform better as a mutilate rogue because my play is much closer to optimal than with combat.

    In short, play whatever spec you're better at. The differences in DPS between the perfect case simulations is small enough to make player skill more important. On any cleave fight, though, combat takes the lead (Blackhorn, Spine, Madness). And Ultraxion can't be backstabbed, so Mutilate and Sub lose there.

  10. #10
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    I think as you gear up, combat pulls further and further ahead. I'm 389 geared atm, and for me, combat is straight up 1300 more dps than Assassination, not even taking into account situational advantages. I hate it, because Assassination is by far my preferred spec, but I don't feel like I can perform nearly as well playing as Assassination, particularly in the last 4 fights of DS. While I can get away with Assassination for Morchokk, Zon'ozz, and Yor'sahj, Combat and Subtlety are still stronger by a not insignificant margin.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
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  11. #11
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    I'm a sub rogue and i'm feel rather the same about Ultraxxion, Spine And madness, shadowstep insta gibs on most of the targets in those fights, and Shadowstepping a burning tendon, ports you halfway back down the spine.

  12. #12
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    I am just getting a rogue alt up to speed, could someone post a link to a good guide on combat rotation and stat preference for rogues?

    Thanks,

  13. #13
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    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    I think as you gear up, combat pulls further and further ahead. I'm 389 geared atm, and for me, combat is straight up 1300 more dps than Assassination, not even taking into account situational advantages. I hate it, because Assassination is by far my preferred spec, but I don't feel like I can perform nearly as well playing as Assassination, particularly in the last 4 fights of DS. While I can get away with Assassination for Morchokk, Zon'ozz, and Yor'sahj, Combat and Subtlety are still stronger by a not insignificant margin.
    Well keep in mind that if you are talking maximising dps, that it only really matters on heroic progress. for everyone doing normal or even LFR topping 22k dps is good enough. Depending on your raid dps more might be preferred but not necessary. Sure more is always better but not everyone is born with excelling super genes :P so just drawing a line for people that would be satisfied with average good results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacket13 View Post
    Well keep in mind that if you are talking maximising dps, that it only really matters on heroic progress. for everyone doing normal or even LFR topping 22k dps is good enough. Depending on your raid dps more might be preferred but not necessary. Sure more is always better but not everyone is born with excelling super genes :P so just drawing a line for people that would be satisfied with average good results.
    No, 22k is just NOT enough for even Normal Ultraxion. Average good results, in my mind, are results that make you an asset to the raid and not a liability. If you aren't doing at least the average damage necessary to kill a boss (and 22k isn't enough to kill Normal Ultra if it's what everyone in the raid is doing), then you aren't even pulling your basic weight.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  16. #16
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    Playing a Combat rogue from back when I got the boot from more than my share of raids for being the 'Baddie' in that spec, I am happy to see/say that it now works amazingly well for me. The search for and subsequent dependence on that Slow main hand weapon left me on the bench for a bit...

    That being said, I prefer this order - Combat>Assassination>Sub - for anyone aspiring to become a rogue. I only suggest Sub for the better players that really get into the complexities of class builds and the ability to handle that kind of depth in a class. For those weekend warriors and casuals that love to button mash, I say 'Go combat, and don't even THINK of doing anything else!' (Yes, at times in the LFR, I just button mash. I am man enough to admit it.)

    Now that the daggers have a MASSIVE BOOST to Sinister Strike AND Suffering for the Agility boost, Combat is seeming to be the flavor of the month, for lack of a better term. I see an awful lot of Rogues that used to tear into me, ditch one of their specs for it now...

  17. #17
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    @tjayrocket
    I think you'll find combat has been flavour of the month for the last year or so, This expansion just doesn't have that many boss encounters that Play to Ass's strengths, so many fights have favoured the cleave mechanic of combat, and the few that don't heavily favoured either the added survivabilty or focused single target of sub or messed around with ass'n'sub's ability to backstab.

  18. #18
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    Reev, I have gone through that EJ thread, and while I can find the finisher priority/rotation list, I am having problems finding a rotation for the basic attacks between finishers. I just Scrolled a Rogue to 80, so I don't really know anything about them. Do you see a rotation for non-finsher attacks?

    Thanks,
    PN

  19. #19
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    That's because EJ is never 100% clear on what to do because they don't dictate it :P because not everyone has a clear understanding of mechanics use this site instead, http://www.noxxic.com/pve/rogue/combat .

  20. #20
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    The priority of finishers is as follows.
    SnD > Rupture > Eviscerate
    EJ seems pretty clear to me. Noxxic is a fine site for the bare necessities of playing, but is very simplistic doesn't really teach you anything about how a spec works.

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