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Thread: Can I have some constructive criticism and feedback please?

  1. #1
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    Can I have some constructive criticism and feedback please?

    Hi,

    The last time I posted to this forum was a massive help, so it seems poingiant to come back here now.
    I am tanking DS10 solidly now, still some DPS issues, may have resolved those now that I am exp capped though, time will tell.

    First off, here's my armory link:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...mdall/advanced

    I know the ring gem is bad, will be replacing it with puissant elven peridot as soon as I can.With all the extra stats I have from the newer get and epc gems, I managed to get to 17 expertise (+10 from glyph) to get exp capped through reforging.
    As I get heroic gear, I intend to get more hit too, adding to my DPS and threat generation as I sometimes tank alongside a DK and either he is constantly taunting, like every ability has a taunt macroed to it or something or his DPS (22k) is just too high for me to keep up with.I have opted not to use any stamina trinkets, with the reasoning that if I get my avoidance to a good level, the extra stam won't really be needed, though 192k unbuffed is fairly high considering I have no stam trinket.

    My problem is, my reforges are inefficient, I can't seem to get character optimisers like askmrrobot to do what I want, it tells me to gem pure stamina in 80% of my sockets, equip 2 stamina trinkets and leave me with 92% total CTC. I admit to being a bit of a noob when it comes to this, but I think I'd have to be very very stupid to do that.

    If anyone can offer me some advice (that preferably doesnt involve replacing all my gems) it would be much appreciated. As I said, things are pretty solid at the moment, I'm just very aware that things could be better with my reforges etc.Thank you very much in advance :-)

    Also, the imbalance between my dodge and parry is intentional, so that I get more benefit from my stackIng dodge trinket and windwalk enchant. Just wanted to mention that in case you were wondering :-)

    Matt.
    Last edited by Héimdall; 03-10-2012 at 01:20 AM. Reason: Formatting and avoidance imbalance

  2. #2
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    If you worry about single target threat generation i'd pick up all talents helping you with this like 2/2 reckoning instead of 2/2 hallowed ground only easing your aoe threat. And tell your co-tank to don't be a dickhead and give you the required 2, 3 seconds to build up enough vengeance to compete.

    For gearing/gems/reforging:
    1) we start with unforging all your stuff
    2) enabling raidbuffs (mastery food, stamina flask)
    3) reforging into mastery when it's not already on the item (offensive before avoidance even if it's way lower rating)
    -> 108.26% with fully stacked spine trinket and <1% dodge/parry off @ 44% avoidance and 220k hitpoints

    If you swap that trinket for a 397 stam one, adjust that 4.5% dodge/parry off (relic, boots, chest, waist, wrist: reforging parry into dodge until again only ~1% off) you'll end up with 12 expertise (with glyph), still above ctc (105%), 3.5% less avoidance and additional 12k hitpoints. You have the luxury to adjust your gems (all blue = 75 stam, all yellow = mastery/stam, red = mastery/parry) and
    even start replacing single gem items (shoulder, cloak, hands) with full stamina, ignoring socket boni and still end up being at the ctc cap with another 5k hitpoints buffer.

    In total: -4% avoidance and less threat for +19k hitpoints, 210k unbuffed.

    http://chardev.org/?profile=366326

    If you want to keep your expertise high this will eat into either your avoidance and/or your hitpoints and i really can't recommend it. You didn't even step into hardmode progression (yet) thus things like enrage timer couldn't have bother you at any given time.
    Last edited by klausi; 03-09-2012 at 06:11 PM.

  3. #3
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    Armory was apperantly down when i tried to check it, so i cant be sure exactly at what state your gear is in as i post this.
    "I am tanking DS10 solidly now, still some DPS issues"
    What is confusing me is why your mentioning hit and expertise. Is it for a dps spec, or your actively getting threat stats for a prot spec?
    When we progressed through heroic ultraxion pre-nerf, i made a second gear set with threat reforges (re-using some FL gear i had and a couple of repeated tanking pieces we got or that i replaced with heroic equivalents), but i havent seen need to use it at all anymore. I would just drop threat stats all together and get a stam increase if your progressing through HM
    Threat with the other tank should rarely be a thing. Either he is taunting when he shouldent (which is a pretty ugly thing to do), or he isint backing off for the 2 seconds you (may) need to build up some vengeance and actualy do a good tps when you do a tank swap.

  4. #4
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    askmrrobot can be a pain in the ass. When I want to see how shit pans out, I experiment with chardev.org.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  5. #5
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    I have been trying to get more threat stats for two reasons:

    1. The other tankHe seems to have tunnel vision, I'm at the point where I'm considering kicking him from the guild because he is screwing things up all the time, his overaggroing has caused soooooo many wipes and he doesn't seem to learn.
    2. DPS.I know DPS isn't my "job" but our raid DPS is a bit low, if I have more hit / exp then I can contribute more to the overall DPS of the raid. We're not hitting enrage timers but we looked at a couple of HM bosses in the last couple of weeks and we just didn't have enough DPS.

    I guess what I'm trying to do is fill two roles at once. When I replaced all my gems with epics, it gave me enough extra stats to reforge to 17 expertise getting exp capped and still be comfortable with CTC.Without food / procs / raid buffs I am just under CTC, I know I am over cap buffed with full procs but, is it better to make sure I only hit CTC cap or allow for dodge procs to push some block off the table? I like the idea of being "unhittable" all the time with the added bonus of more chance to take no damage instead of 70%.
    Last edited by Héimdall; 03-10-2012 at 01:25 AM. Reason: Formatting

  6. #6
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    Sorry about the text wall, apparently the iPhone doesn't do formatting very well :-(

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Héimdall View Post
    I have been trying to get more threat stats for two reasons:

    1. The other tankHe seems to have tunnel vision, I'm at the point where I'm considering kicking him from the guild because he is screwing things up all the time, his overaggroing has caused soooooo many wipes and he doesn't seem to learn.
    Find a replacement co-tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Héimdall View Post
    2. DPS.I know DPS isn't my "job" but our raid DPS is a bit low, if I have more hit / exp then I can contribute more to the overall DPS of the raid. We're not hitting enrage timers but we looked at a couple of HM bosses in the last couple of weeks and we just didn't have enough DPS.
    Whilst what you say is true, you'll likely see a bigger raid DPS by tanks going for full defence , and having one of your healers go DPS. You'll likely see the biggest increase by sorting out why your DPS sub par.

    Quote Originally Posted by Héimdall View Post
    I guess what I'm trying to do is fill two roles at once. When I replaced all my gems with epics, it gave me enough extra stats to reforge to 17 expertise getting exp capped and still be comfortable with CTC.Without food / procs / raid buffs I am just under CTC, I know I am over cap buffed with full procs but, is it better to make sure I only hit CTC cap or allow for dodge procs to push some block off the table? I like the idea of being "unhittable" all the time with the added bonus of more chance to take no damage instead of 70%.
    you want to be unhittable with just the static buffs available to your raid (Kings, Shout, food, flask, and in your case with your trinket fully stacked), it is perfectly acceptable to have dodge procs push a little bit of Block off the combat table, and is infinitely preferable to being hittable when the procs aren't up.

  8. #8
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    - Seal of Truth and Judgement of Truth won't miss
    - Avenger's shield, Censure, Consecration, Holy Wrath & Hammer of Wrath can only miss

    That's over almost 50% of your damage not affected from expertise rating at all. Leaving you with auto attacks, crusader strike and SotR affected from expertise. Thus increasing expertise is only as good as increasing hit, not twice as good until the cap as for other tanks.

    Imagine dealing A dps. Increasing your offensive stats from 0 to 8% hit (960 rating) or 0 to 26 expertise (780 rating) is only a <8% dps bump each over an unlimited amount of fights, combined <16%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Héimdall View Post
    Without food / procs / raid buffs I am just under CTC, I know I am over cap buffed with full procs but, is it better to make sure I only hit CTC cap or allow for dodge procs to push some block off the table? I like the idea of being "unhittable" all the time with the added bonus of more chance to take no damage instead of 70%.
    Only 100.58%. Spine trinket has no procc, you just hit anything for some seconds and get your reward. If you use my chardev profile above you can safely run with and without it, exchanging for more stamina or another cooldown (mirror, stay of execution) when you feel the urge to. Windwalk is just a bonus, don't calculate with that. In general: if you prefer avoidance over stamina that's totally fine, paladin lack defense the other tank's mastery provide after a certain point. But due to diminishing returns on avoidance rating you'll have to set your personal prefence values and adjust accordingly to your team.

    Ps: i guess your new shield reforge is just a misclick?

  9. #9
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    I have had the same problem with DK's either as Co-Tanks or as DPS acting like a tank. Usually as the guy above said they can be dickheads (either through indifference or pure ego) OR they simply don't know how to Tank or DPS adequately. Not to troll DK's, I have a DK myself and know not to drop DnD, Deathgrip or the hundreds of other things you can do to draw aggro. I've had to kick quite a few from a dungeon after-wipe. You shouldn't have to kick him from your Guild, just politely explain what's going on with the aggro maybe ask him if he'd like to go DPS instead, chances are he'd probably enjoy that more anyhow.
    Also:
    We had to come up with a motto: You pull it, you tank it.
    (admittedly shit happens, people make mistakes but if they're made repeatedly then action is required)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by klausi View Post
    increasing expertise is only as good as increasing hit, not twice as good until the cap as for other tanks.
    Not entirely correct;

  11. #11
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    Coming from a DK. Our threat gen just seems through the roof. With our main ability hitting like a truck aggro can be a touchy thing when tank swapping even without the dk taunting back off you. The dk just needs to watch his ability usage and not use DS for a little while after you have the boss and general just back off.

    While I can see your point about trying to increase over all raid dps, dps should not be your job. If the raids dps is low, figuring out why it is low and then either replacing people or fixing their rotations/gemming/gearing. As Teng said, if you can make your healers jobs easier and allow one of them to go dps while be a bigger dps increase than you can generate while tanking. You could increase your dps only 2 maybe 3k while a healer going dps should be able a 20-30k dps increase for the raid including buffs you might not have been getting before.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Not entirely correct; </graph>
    Theck can't be wrong, looks like i don't account enough for holy power generation

    On DK tanks:
    It really doesn't matter if it's a death strike, a heavy repercussion shield slam or a mangle hitting after a tank swap, they all benefit from 100% vengeance versus 0% vengeance. Even is you prepare for the swap, pooling 3 holy power and keep judgement and avengers shield of cooldown there's still a good chance that your first SotR gets avoided. It's your co tanks job to watch their threatmeter and calculate when they can go all out again, no excuses.
    Last edited by klausi; 03-10-2012 at 11:03 AM.

  13. #13
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    Shield reforge wasn't a misclick, I was going to try and get more hit to increase my DPS but after reading, I will probably revisit this.It's a bit tricky with the raid group, I know over 50% of them IRL. Apart from that, I've never played a resto Druid before and not played endgame priest or resto shammy. I never lvl'd a warrior, so I can't advise on how to improve DPS there either :-S

  14. #14
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    I'll try and get world of logs on the next raid lockout. Might be useful to see exactly what ppl are doing!

  15. #15
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    Think about it this way: if the two 15k dps tanks improve their dps by 10%, the raid dps goes up by 3000 (2x1500). If the 6 25k dps improve their dps by 10%, the raid dps improves by 15000 (and if I am honest, anybody doing less than 30k in gear similar in level to yours really needs to look at what they are doing, because they are doing something wrong).

    If you use dodge food, you are 0.9% (72 mastery rating) above the CTC cap when raid buffed. If you use mastery food, you are 1.69% (135 mastery rating) above the CTC cap.

    Get. Rid. Of. That. Mastery.

    Alternatively, you could get another 206 (146 if you use mastery food instead of dodge food) mastery rating, and switch the Resolve to a stamina trinket.

    Your job is to not die. Anything you can do beyond that is just gravy on top of the pie. Especially with the stacking nerf now at a massive 10%, you really should not need to have the tank sacrifice survivability to boost the raid dps. You have 520 expertise rating and 243 hit rating (153 comes from the tier gloves, which you can't really change). That is 620 rating that could be mastery (3.46 mastery, or 7.8% block), allowing you to use a stamina trinket and gem some solid iolites for when you start heroic modes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    Anything you can do beyond that is just gravy on top of the pie.
    Who puts gravy on pie? A nice apple gravy pie? Perhaps some pecan and gravy pie? Key lime pie smothered in gravy?

    Don't give me any of this meat pie nonsense either.

  17. #17
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    pie.JPG

    I'm a potatoes guy myself, so I prefer extra stamina over a bit of extra avoidance.
    Last edited by Fetzie; 03-12-2012 at 01:48 AM.

  18. #18
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    Ok, so we used world of logs on Wednesday, we had a pretty bad night not managing warmaster :-(
    Would you mind having a look over the logs? I have no idea how to read this :-(
    I need to spend some time going over what the data means exactly.

    Here is the link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-fjvsahhukp6nmvik/

    For this raid, our usual disc priest was absent and we had a holy paladin instead, although he was lower geared than the rest of us :-s

    Any feedback or questions would be very much appreciated!
    Last edited by Héimdall; 03-15-2012 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Formatting

  19. #19
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    What would you like to know? there's a hell of a lot of information there. Your Prot warrior used cleave 3 times as oftena as HS on ultraxion which is just bad game play (and has specced Blood Craze...urg)and has a hard on for spell reflection (only works ona very few specific spells in PVE). Likewise your fury warrior is using whirlwind on single target, and does not appear to be expertise capped.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    What would you like to know? there's a hell of a lot of information there. Your Prot warrior used cleave 3 times as oftena as HS on ultraxion which is just bad game play (and has specced Blood Craze...urg)and has a hard on for spell reflection (only works ona very few specific spells in PVE). Likewise your fury warrior is using whirlwind on single target, and does not appear to be expertise capped.
    I have now officially read enough to know that every person in your raid needs to go and find a guide to their class/spec. Tell your raiders that before your next raid they need to:
    1) Make sure their spec is appropriate for the content you are working on.
    2) Make sure that their stat priority is correct.
    3) Make sure they are using the correct rotation and abilities in the correct situations and not wasting DPS/resources on useless ability's.

    At what point do your responsibility's as the raid leader end and your raiders personal responsibility begin? You may want to take some time to resolve an answer to this question.

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