Unsleeping vs ultraxion (heroic)

[uktank]

Hi guys, my guild started on hc unsleeping the other day and have spent 2 nites getting him to 50% now and then but cannot get it any lower...
After doing ultra on normal today everyones dps was just above 32k....so now people are saying lets do HC ultra instead......would this seem like a good idea with that dps?

[Fetzie]

To get ultraxion you want the average dps of each damage dealer to be around 35k. This will be enough to kill him just before the damage gets really rough and the cooldowns start to drop off (5 mins 30). However, the damage isn't really what will stop you killing him, rather people derping Fading light (2 people + the tank need to react, and you can have as little as 3 seconds) or the Hour of Twilight rotation.

What was killing you on Yorsahj? Which blobs are you killing and how are you handling the Mana Void?

[uktank]

We used the order addon for "yor" and it was the adds that kept doing us over.
linky - http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/yorsahj

We started knocking the mana void down to 10% then killing it on the next go...but for some reason we stopped doing this on the 2nd nite.

Does this 35K inc the recent nerf ?

Thanks for your input =D

[Fetzie]

It does include the 10% nerf.

What we do is leave the Void at around 80%, and I (the tank) bring it low when the next blue blob happens while the rest of the raid is handling blobs.

[uktank]

We use this team..
DK tank
mage arcane
SP
ret palla
lock (i think he does destruction not sure he looked up and the best for this fight)
combat rogue
S-hunter
Arms warrior

healers..
Holy palla
Holy Priest


It just seems the adds are up for way to long ie when we get 2 lots they are running with us to the next slug.

And we hold back for a few seconds to lets the tank put some aoe out then when we start our aoe they just batter us

[Fetzie]

You cannot tank the adds (as far as I have noticed), get rid of them as soon as possible. When you get yellow+black it is normal to have the second adds running with you to the next blob.

[uktank]

I will most prob push our team back onto this boss on weds...i will post combat logs thanks

[Bigbad]

Why is the mage arcane if you have a ret pally for the 3% buff?

[Fetzie]

The Mage really should be Fire to spread massive combustions on the second wave of adds at black/yellow so that they die on their own.

[uktank]

The mage is me....its my alt i have geared up very quickly when i found out you need a DK tank for this boss my main is a prot warrior. I will take a look at fire

[Fetzie]

You don't need a DK for this boss. It might make it easier, but it doesn't mean it is impossible to tank it with a Warrior. I tank it as a paladin without any real issues.

[uktank]

Yea but our 2nd tank is a dk sooo it would be wise to use and i dont have a dps spec on my warrior (or want one) it doesnt look like a change to fire spec would be too bad and if i use a rotation addon shouldnt be to long before im doing ok on it

[klausi]

To get ultraxion you want the average dps of each damage dealer to be around 35k.

Wasn't that the numbers from pre nerf? With 10% less hitpoints he should be fine with 32k on average, shouldn't he?

But a thing to consider: normal is WAY shorter (more proportional bloodlust & potion uptime). If you thing you have the dps go with Ultraxion, he's way less complex - only a giant target dummy if you watch your debuffs carefully (or set up power auras correct).

[Fetzie]

He still has something like 80 million life that you need to get rid of in 330-360 seconds.

[klausi]

He has about 76 million left according to latest logs. Even the worst dps tank combo should be capable of dealing 10 million damage over the timespan of six minutes (~ 14k dps each), leaving you with 66 million for 6 dps or 11 million damage for everyone - that's only 30.5k dps.

[Bigbad]

If you want to kill it in 5:30 which is sort of needed with 2 healers you need 33k dps each and 16,5k dps from both tanks.

[klausi]

If you want to kill it in 5:30 which is sort of needed with 2 healers

We killed him several times around the hard enrage timer and that was without any nerf, now it's 10% less damage incoming. Might depend on the healer setup but having a holy paladin just spamming holy radiance with the blue buff and you're almost ready for this if you time your raidcooldowns properly. We managed to do this pre nerfs with holy paladin + resto druid, +disc priest and +resto shaman - sadly i can't comment on holy priest. Wouldn't be to scared about the incoming raiddamage later on unless your holy paladin struggles regulary.

[uktank]

Priests main was disc up untill a couple of weeks ago so it wouldnt be a problem for him to change i guess if u think thats better...pally is good no problems there (except for the fact he runs about on one of those pink girly mounts)


I think ultra is sounding the way to go now...

[Gregasaurous]

IMO, Ultraxion is easier. Why? All it requires is simple basic self and raid awareness, and then it's a solid number check. Yes you will wipe several times (at the beginning or end) because somebody lost count of what HOT you were on, or they missed their Fading Light. Whatever the case may be, these can be overcome by smart players and maybe even good communication. When you progress on that fight, attempts get blurred, people lose track, so call everything out, you'll be ok. Healing gets fun at the end. If tanks time 4 set CD's well they can slip them in for the end of the fight when you want to start chaining raid CD's as well, there's that problem. Then there's the DPS check. He has (80,781,424-8,078,142.4) = 72,703,281 health on 10m heroic as of 4.3.3 6 DPS average 32k a piece, 2 tanks average 16k a piece. That's 224000 raid DPS, which in 330 seconds is 73,920,000 damage. GG (The 80 million number is from WoWhead at patch 4.3.0)

Why I don't like Yors? RNG. It can literally make or break your progression on this fight. Granted skilled raiders will overcome difficult situations, but better gear helps you do this. Marginally better DPS = adds die faster. Better geared healers = more bang for buck on a purple phase where every heal counts. Better geared tank, in your DK's case = less required skill, more LOL bloodshield /dance. Anyway, you see where i'm going with this. While in most situations when stuff gets rough you pop CD's. On Heroic Yorsaj shit can get rough twice in a row, or maybe 3 times if your life really sucks. That's when it's all on the player. It's not "impossible" for any Raid Group, just takes a little more of a boost for some then others. Such is the way of WoW.

[uktank]

Thanks alot for the help guys...on our 2nd attempt we got him to 8.3% this evening hopefully get him tomorrow with a bit of luck !!