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Thread: Best 10m loot system

  1. #1
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    Best 10m loot system

    For years, we have just run MS>OS with one loot per week. Tokens and uncontested didn't count against your one loot.

    Recently, that has been more problematic. For one, we have four paladins. For another, the loot drops have been so stupid we are sharding most drops while lots of people still need gear.

    To add another layer of complexity, we have a druid that goes boomkin/resto depending on the fight and I go prot/ret. Our Druid has three full tier sets because he's the only one on that token and it's all that drops. Most of us are still trying for four piece.

    The main reason for wanting to modify our loot system is to encourage attendance. We prefer to reward attendance rather than "punish" being late/missing/leaving early.

    So, what are the ideas for 10m to reward attendance, kind of balance the few usable drops we see and allow the two who have to switch spec to have some fair shots at both specs without letting them roll for everything.

    Thanks.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  2. #2
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    loot council

    if your raiders actually trust your officers it won't be a problem.
    Last edited by leethaxor; 03-22-2012 at 01:03 PM.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

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    I don't think that would work for reasons I am not sure I want to go into. It has come up, but I don't feel comfortable with it and I have heard other objections. I have heard that dkp and epgp both lead to drama in a 10 man and that there is not enough competition for most gear to make not earning points a true penalty. Any other thoughts?

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    Any system that makes you say to a player will lead to drama at the end of day.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

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    We just have group loot up, need if you need it, pass if you don't, one guy greeds for disenchant. We also hand loot to another person that rolled if they need it more. I call it the "Common Sense Open Group Loot System".

    Whatever you do, don't make it too complicated.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    We just have group loot up, need if you need it, pass if you don't, one guy greeds for disenchant. We also hand loot to another person that rolled if they need it more. I call it the "Common Sense Open Group Loot System".

    Whatever you do, don't make it too complicated.
    ^ This

    I mean... no offense, but when I was doing 10 mans usually the loot is so specific that only 1 person wants something anyways, often times with the exception of tier tokens, then we did what fetzie said and just /rolled and we passed loot if it wasn't that big of a deal or a bigger upgrade to someone else. I always stressed that you get loot to kill bosses, not kill bosses to get loot and just straight up /gkicked people for being loot whores. Try to de-emphasize loot as much as possible, though with ilevel inflation being what it is that's sometimes hard, but really just "don't start nothin' won't be nothin'" kinda thing. I mean you're a TEAM, shouldn't you want your peers to get loot too?

    We called our loot system "hey bob you want that? okay here you go"
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  7. #7
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    Best 10m loot system

    What you describe is what we have always done in the past. Haven't had loot drama yet. Just to clarify, there are two main "issues" we wanted to address:

    1. Attendance issues
    This is the main issue. Not much we can think of to reward attendance/punish non-attendance but loot or the raid spot. As a recent guild transfer, we don't really have a bench and half the raid team is from the old server and the other half joined together as a group. Not sure how replacing an attendance issue would sit with those friends that joined together.

    2. The swingers
    If I tank five fights and dps three, I end up passing on all loot until at least the second time seeing it. The tank tanking 8 should get tank gear first, right? The dds dps'ing 8 should get dps gear first, right? We are having issues seeing usable loot even once, much less twice (tank gear) or three-five times (dps gear with ret and fury as our melée).
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

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    The thing with swingers is that they 'need' twice the gear to do their job as good as the rest, but everyone else feels more entitled because they do their job more often. Solution? Pick a spec as main and stick to it. I used to be Enh/Resto in Naxx, Resto/Enh in Ulduar & TotC and Resto/Ele in ICC, and our rules were simple:
    * Pick a main job (in your case tanking) and stick to that prio.
    * Agree with your officers that the swinger job comes with responsibilities (keeping gear enchanted/gemmed, high activity,L2P,...)
    * Allow swinger off-specs to come before other off-specs

    If you prefer a different loot system, our guild PuGs used to do Loot Count. Basicly every raid everyone starts at 0, then if you get a drop, roll, the winner gets 1. Next drop, only those with 0 get prio on the item and so on. In this system, youl'd give prio to the swinger either below or next to main specs on the off-spec, but not increase the count (for reasons mentioned above).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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    It would be exponentially better gear-wise to run with less than 4 paladins. Are all of the buffs covered I wonder?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  10. #10
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    I've done the "need if you need" method, dkp, high roll MS>OS (yes, pug loot rules, in a guild it's stupid and it sucks)and, now, loot council. If you have a group with a true "team" attitude, then I've found "need if you need" is the best. But one loot lady of the evening ruins it for the group - they don't even have to be overt, just every piece that they can use "that's better for me, or that's a slight upgrade, or that has a bit better crit or haste or whatever - breeds tension. Right now we use a loot council method, and since I'm an officer I'm one of the council. That can cause some issues, but we have a team attitude so not really a big deal.

  11. #11
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    Are all of the buffs covered I wonder?
    We can usually get all but one or two covered. We also have two hunters that I have talked into taming the appropriate spectrum of pets so that we can get the best buff coverage. We do occasionally miss the 5% spell crit or the 8% spell damage or the bleed debuff. Since we typically run with only one caster and nobody who really needs a bleed buff, it works out ok.

    [Edit]Just to get it out there, the team is something like this:

    Pally Prot
    Pally Prot/Ret
    Pally Ret
    Shaman Resto
    Pally Holy
    Druid Boomkin/Resto (prefers bear and has all sets geared out the wazoo because no competition for drops and it''s ALL we get)
    Warrior Arms/Fury (Prefers Fury and will probably be going back to that next lockout)
    Hunter SV
    Hunter SV
    ??? Originally an arcane mage. Work/RL issues so often fill with a friend of a raider with numerous alts. May have found a Shadow/Disc more permanent player (Yay for #5 on the token!)

    I appreciate all the input so far and all of it will go into our considerations. I know there is no panacea for attendance issues, but any thoughts on encouraging it? None of the loot systems mentioned really provide a level of incentive. In a 10m with no true bench, are there no real controls that can be "turned" for that?

    [Edit again]
    I am the prot/ret. I also have alts that I could bring in. I would be willing to even though it would be disappointing to kind of switch "mains".
    Unholy/Blood dk
    SV hunter
    Fire mage
    Disc/Shadow priest
    Resto/kitty
    Bear/Boomkin
    Assn/Combat rogue

    All of them in both specs have at least a 379-385 iLvl (bear is actually weak on his boomkin spec). Since we are putting in heroic attempts every week now (first expansion/patch to really do that), that would probably mean spending some time gearing one a little if I did change. Bonus points if you can provide a good reason to switch other than just the token.
    Last edited by sifuedition; 03-23-2012 at 07:41 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    I appreciate all the input so far and all of it will go into our considerations. I know there is no panacea for attendance issues, but any thoughts on encouraging it? None of the loot systems mentioned really provide a level of incentive. In a 10m with no true bench, are there no real controls that can be "turned" for that?
    Try talking to them? Saying "hey, we're a team here...and if you're not going to show up NONE of us can raid" ask them if they're interested in raiding at all or if you should go recruit a replacement for them.

    Honestly, you should recruit some people anyway...your comp is a tragedy.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    Try talking to them? Saying "hey, we're a team here...and if you're not going to show up NONE of us can raid" ask them if they're interested in raiding at all or if you should go recruit a replacement for them.

    Honestly, you should recruit some people anyway...your comp is a tragedy.
    Agreed with both points, you can't field a successful raid unless your raiders actually feel they are part of a team, well not even that. They if they screw up 9 other people pay the price. If they are late their are 9 other people waiting around for an hour and a half waiting for them to show up. And while it is their 15 bucks a month its your 135 bucks a month and you all choice to raid together so are you?
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  14. #14
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    We use FFA loot system. It is the fairest in my opinion, because it rewards the fastest (aka most skilled people) who will shift+click (or simply click if you got it set to always loot everything from a corpse) first. It's all drama free and your raid ends up having great loot distribution.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valaras View Post
    We use FFA loot system. It is the fairest in my opinion, because it rewards the fastest (aka most skilled people) who will shift+click (or simply click if you got it set to always loot everything from a corpse) first. It's all drama free and your raid ends up having great loot distribution.
    The Diablo development team disagrees with you.






    I also smell slight sarcasm, but that could just be 'cause I haven't showered yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
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  16. #16
    yow yow yow

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