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Thread: Legendary 67: 600 Nerfed IRL

  1. #1

    Legendary 67: 600 Nerfed IRL

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  2. #2
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    Interesting episode, and I'll actually make my comments and questions short this time, well sort of.

    Blizzard said they need to be smart about managing resources, but if you remember when they joined with Activision the main reason given was so they would have more resources available. That gives a big hmmm...

    If they lay of GMs does that mean the 24 hour wait for an automated response for an issue to be sent to you by email will now become 48 hours?
    Honestly, I don't think we will miss the GMs at all because they seemed to be non-existent in the first place. Or they can make a bot GM that hangs out in Uldum with 20 other farming bots out there at any given time that Blizz has no interest of getting rid of.

    As for the stat changes, I'm all with Mike B on that one. Goes back to when they eliminated certain stats in the past for the reason of making it easier to understand, but in turn ended up making it all more confusing.

    And last, for everything else... Layoffs, the resistance changes. ect... I just picture some Activision executive, bearing a striking resemblance the the boss in Dilbert, finally sitting down to play World of Warcraft for the first time. Upon finishing his 5 minute session, went to Blizzard and told them to change or get rid of anything he did not understand in the game and fire anyone who might be smarter than he was. Then told them that the terminolgy of the game was too complicated and had them change the resilence stats and other things to sound more Mario like.

    Only thing missing from Wow turning over to being a Blizzactivision console port might the addition of side scrolling raids with bosses being a pay as you go DLC content download. The only thing fun left in Wow are these shows covering it. Keep the info and fun coming, maybe Blizz will learn from you guys. For me, Im happy to be playing Rift now : ) Cheers
    Last edited by Roclor; 03-02-2012 at 11:49 PM. Reason: bad grammar

  3. #3
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    Pandas...
    Pokemon...
    PvP Power...

    God I can't wait for Guild Wars 2.

  4. #4
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    Against a +3/boss level creature: 15% spell miss, 7.5% melee miss, 7.5% dodge

    Hit and spell hit will no longer be separate stats. The hit stat negates melee miss and spell miss. Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.
    So yeah, expertise granting spell hit is entirely for things like enhancement shaman.

    Currently it's something retarded like:

    2283 "hit the boss stats" for enhancement shaman (unless they're a dwarf w/a mace or orc w/an axe or fist or a draenei)
    2193 for dwarf/orc
    2182 for draenei
    1742 for all casters and arms warriors (except draenei)
    1641 for draenei casters
    1342 for ret paladins
    961 for hunters

    There are others, obviously...but the idea is clear. With this change everyone would be 1742 (or whichever they balance it at), assuming they remove all the hit and expertise talents and glyphs.

    A MUCH needed change (says the enhancement shaman).

    Edit: Oh hey...also worth noting: Less Gary and more ... whoever the new guy is (Mike something, apparently).

    Edit #2: YES! BLIZZARD Y U NO SHAMAN LEGENDARY!?
    Last edited by Ion; 03-03-2012 at 01:35 PM.

  5. #5
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    The way i think the PVP change is intended to work is changing from a system in which a PVE'er who steps into PVP actually does more damage than a PVPer but is just easy to kill to a system in which a PVE'er steps into PVP and does much less damage but isn't (substantially) easier to kill. You can't simultaneously retain PVP gear progression and implement a system in which a PVE'er can step into PVP - if there is some sort of progression then you're always going to have to have people coming in at the lower rungs at a severe disadvantage. The problem now is that your disadvantage is survivability rather than the ability to damage other players and that leads to the type of 'bang you're dead' type of PVP that I think they have been trying to get away from.

    Your example of a sub rogue is exactly the problem. Take some i400 sub rogue from PVE and put them in PVP and they are (barring tactical differences) actually going to put out more damage than their PVP counterparts. Against someone with no PVP gear the fight degenerates into 'Hey an invisible guy managed to not stand in the fire on the ground to make him visible and now i'm dead in 0.5 seconds with absolutely nothing I can do and nothing to learn from this "battle"'. Against a PVPer it works out pretty well - their resilience mitigates the damage and a fight ensues in which the rogue takes large amounts of damage and loses.

    The idea of the change should be that you come in with PVE gear and aren't just clobbered by anyone (read: any rogue in the current state of PVP) globaling you but with the opportunity to still do at least as much and typically more damage than the people with PVP gear. Instead after the change your survivability would be roughly similar but your ability to do damage is what would be 'nerfed'. I think this system would be much better as it would leader to longer, more strategic fights and less roll d20 for initiative and whoever wins the roll (or wins at being a rogue) wins the fight before the other guy can move. You'll still lose against a PVPer since they'll be doing normal but non-retarded amounts of damage to you while you are not hurting them very much but the fight won't be over before you at least get to move.

  6. #6
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    so about pvp power and pvp defense, i can tell you something we can all agree on (if you are a pve player)

    How many times did you go in to LFR or in the past random dungeons, and see a guy win all these pve gears and they are in full pvp set and probably would never use any of these pve gears.

    well also this seperates pvp and pve and gives them more focus. as a pve player, most of them would grind honor points just so they can get some early high ilvl and stat gears just so they can get in to random dungeons and raids, because of their ilvl requirements to do any of these.

    not being able to use pvp gears to pve and vise versa is good i belive. also since they are making respecing easier (i think...) perhaps more people will try out the other side of the game (pve and pvp).

    but WE ALL KNOW... when all those QQs come at blizzard.... we know what we are going to get.

    IT IS WORKING AS INTENDED.

  7. #7
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    i like how we got to choose vash or hyjal at launch, and come molten front if u chose vash and didnt think to finish hyjal it was like, GUESS YOU CHOSE WRONG BITCH NOW GO BACK AND DO THIS ZONE JUST SO CAN PARTICIPATE IN THIS FAILURE PHASED UP THE ASS DAILY QUEST HUB

  8. #8
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    as for DOTA style battle ground... with mobs that will spawn and keep trying to defeat the other team... maybe... just maybe.... more healers will join battle grounds

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by espasoul View Post
    i like how we got to choose vash or hyjal at launch, and come molten front if u chose vash and didnt think to finish hyjal it was like, GUESS YOU CHOSE WRONG BITCH NOW GO BACK AND DO THIS ZONE JUST SO CAN PARTICIPATE IN THIS FAILURE PHASED UP THE ASS DAILY QUEST HUB
    Oh come on, it was 20 minutes of quests for a level 85.

  10. #10
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    pvpp

    so here my view on the nieuw pvp power / defence stats and what i think blizzards intentions are.

    i think what blizzard is trying to do with these stats is make sure pvp gear is always better in pvp. and pve gear(from same tier) is always the best in pve. but pvp gear will not be as bad as it is now in pve. cause pvp gear will be just as effective as pve gear with the same ilvl(cause pvp power and defence are free stats. but because equal tier pvp gear is now lower ilvl then pve gear you get form raiding. the gear you get from raiding will still be best in slot.
    and the lower ilvl pvp gear be best in slot for pvp because the pvp power and pvp defence will give the dmg increase and dmg decrease will be much greater then what you could get from pve gear. were as right now the loss of resilience for swtiching out some pvp gear for pve gear is not that big of a deal, specialy with trinket like vial and cunning. but with the new pvp power and it being free on gear the dmg increase you get from equiping pve item (even if its abit higher ilvl) will not realy be better cause you lose the dmg from the pvp power and you will take more dmg from losing pvp defence aswell. and the 30% base is there because i think. if you equip full pvp gear vs some1 else with full pvp gear, pvp power and pvp defence wil cancel each other out. mean you would do same dmg to a player as you would do to a raid boss, so that were the base 30% comes in the lower the dmg in pvp.

    anyway that just what i think. hope it makes any sence :P

  11. #11
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    Personally, I think SWTOR should be pronounced like "sweater".

    RE: the leveling/zone linear issue:

    This is important, it really is. One of SWTOR's biggest selling points was its replayability. That was the spiel anyway. In reality, I've found it to have low replay value due to the linear leveling process. Yes, your class story differs, but that constitutes <5% of your total quests. If you've leveled one Empire or Pub character, your next one is going to be at least a 95% similar experience. At least in wow classic and TBC, there were options of how and where to level for the most part. I know I rarely set foot in Dustwallow Marsh until they revamped it with the goblin town there. If you're the type who has a main and that's it, then it won't bother you. If you like alts, it's a big deal.
    Last edited by tobarstep; 03-04-2012 at 06:44 AM.

  12. #12
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    First off, I don't think I've laughed so hard in a long time. Great -Legendary- guys. So many good points and awesome humor.
    Moving on...

    Quote Originally Posted by ildranor View Post
    so here my view on the nieuw pvp power / defence stats and what i think blizzards intentions are.

    but pvp gear will not be as bad as it is now in pve. cause pvp gear will be just as effective as pve gear with the same ilvl(cause pvp power and defence are free stats. but because equal tier pvp gear is now lower ilvl then pve gear you get form raiding. the gear you get from raiding will still be best in slot.
    and the lower ilvl pvp gear be best in slot for pvp:P
    From what I understand, PvP power and defense will only be effective in a Player vs Player environment, therefore PvP gear will not be "just as effective as pve gear" in a PvE scenario. If I read your post wrong, my apologies.

    I really like the idea Mike B brought up about class quests rewarding small, stacking "buffs" to an item slot or something similar. It sounds like the perfect way to incorporate cool quest lines + relevant incentives without breaking the game.

    -Vis

  13. #13
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    I'd expect to see stamina given higher priority over a raw performance stat (Agility, Intellect, Strength) on PVP gear and a slightly higher emphasis on secondary stats. Because of the power/defense stats on PVP gear being effective tuning knobs, Blizzard can easily adjust them to function in PVP content while making them less desirable for PVE.

  14. #14
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    I completely agree with you Keld. If this is implemented correctly, I see PvP balance being easier to adjust. If class A is outperforming class B from a damage standpoint, they could simply scale back the amount of PvP power on class A's gear set to compensate. Same concept on a class that feels too squishy in every situation, give them a tad more PvP defense. I really feel like it's a step in the right direction in that sense.

  15. #15
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    Stats

    I personally like how FFXIV uses their stat system for how classes work. Aka Monk needs Intelligence cause he can charge his fist with power of Fire or Earth which deals melee dmg and extra dmg as spell dmg Fire/Earth.
    Archers needing Piety to increase their debuff durations. Healers going Vitality to make their buffs stronger

    This game however has no PVP, no 2 sided faction rivalry. But will implement some sorta Gladiators arena for pvp minigames in patch 2.0.

    I personally hate PvP and would much more prefer Devs come up with cool storylines all the time.

    Strength
    Attack Power
    Damage dealt by Gladiator's Arm
    Damage dealt by Lancer's Arm
    Damage dealt by Marauder's Arm
    Damage dealt by Puglist's Arm


    Vitality
    Maximum HP
    Damage Taken
    Enhancement Magic Potency (Dmg absorb spells like Stoneskin, Protect)
    Damage dealt by Marauder's Arm


    Dexterity
    Accuracy - Melee
    Block Rate
    Parry
    Damage dealt by Archer's Arm


    Intelligence
    Attack Magic Potency
    Damage dealt by Pugilist's Arm


    Mind
    Magic Accuracy
    Healing Magic Potency
    Damage dealt by Conjurer's Arm
    Damage dealt by Gladiator's Arm
    Damage dealt by Thaumaturge's Arm


    Piety
    Maximum MP
    Magic Evasion
    Enfeebling Magic Potency ( Increases duration of spells like Slow, Bind, Blind, Heavy, Poison, Silence)
    Damage dealt by Archer's Arm
    Damage dealt by Conjurer's Arm
    Damage dealt by Lancer's Arm
    Damage dealt by Thaumaturge's Arm

  16. #16
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    nice to have a host that has knowledge of the game and has personal experiences to fall back on

  17. #17
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    So...

    As someone who mostly watches Legendary, and doesn't really follow other GBTV shows: who's that guy, why didn't he introduce himself, and... can we keep him?

  18. #18
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    Yeah, preferred this host also, for the main reason that he has obviously played WoW extensively and therefore had good questions and made valid points of his own.

    Also, why you have to have PvP Power:

    PvE players will have a higher ilvl of gear. So, if they went into a BG in PvE gear, vs lower ilvl PvPers, even though the PvErs would die quicker, they would also do more damage than the PvPers and that could counteract the PvP Defense.

    With PvP Power too, the lover ilvl PvPers will do the same amount of damage as higher ilvl PvEers. The PvPers will then also take less damage. Basically, it'll be the same situation as we have right now with equal ilvl and just resilience.

    PvP Power just balances out the higher ilvl of the PvE gear.
    Last edited by swills; 03-05-2012 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Aded PvP Power bit

  19. #19
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    WoW Dota, if they pull this off, could be the biggest thing that could happen to WoW.
    There are a lot of problems to resolve like a 5 man bg, Fog of War, progression of character in a battleground, role of a character outside of normal PvE, number of abilities to use, items for a Bg ... but.
    Damn if they make it work, only if they start in Mist with an Alterac Valley with 3 lanes with towers that attack ... still, this could keep WoW alive after the level 100 Sargeras expansion.

  20. #20
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    "None of the layoffs [referring to the 10% that were dev positions] were in the WoW Dev team"

    So basically they were transferred on to another project THEN fired so that it wouldn't look bad.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

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