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Thread: Block Changes in MoP

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by leethaxor View Post
    With the changes to SB and SotR it sounds like you will want to be keeping almost a 100% uptime on those abilities. And with you proc'ing a 100% block, block will become useless as it stands. Why bother stacking mastery when you are already going to block 3/4 of all incoming attacks on player skill alone?
    Having to keep hitting ShoR every second GCD to keep up the blocking sounds rather like Shield Block in TBC, thought Blizz wanted to get away from that...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    Having to keep hitting ShoR every second GCD to keep up the blocking sounds rather like Shield Block in TBC, thought Blizz wanted to get away from that...
    They also wanted to get away from capp'ing stats.
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  3. #23
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    Reev what you're doing doesn't make complete sense to me, its more valuable to compare the effect of x amount of ratings have assuming a certain base of stats, since you always will have a certain amount of stats anyway. I agree with you that the value of block doesn't look great specially if they would implement DR on it.

    The value of avoidance and block is the amount of damage they reduce multiplied by the percentages of attacks they effect.
    For avoidance this would be 100%*percentage of attacks effected
    For block this would be 30%(or more)*percentage block*(100%-avoidance)
    Depending on the average blockvalue block already reduces 3,3 times less damage and depending on avoidance it will effect 1,4 (1/0,7) times less attacks.

    It's also slightly more complicated since an avoided attack can replace a block instead of a normal hit in the 2 roll system.
    edit: avoidance would be (100%-(blockvalue*blockchance))*percentage of attacks effected
    Last edited by Bigbad; 03-02-2012 at 01:31 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    How is this a good thing?
    So we can bring back all stamina gems again...........DUH!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by leethaxor View Post
    With the changes to SB and SotR it sounds like you will want to be keeping almost a 100% uptime on those abilities. And with you proc'ing a 100% block, block will become useless as it stands. Why bother stacking mastery when you are already going to block 3/4 of all incoming attacks on player skill alone?
    Thing is that ShotR and SB are only +25% block chance (unless i've missed an update), so even if we do, and need to, have 100% uptime on those buffs we're not going to be guaranteed to eliminate hits to the face. Not by a long shot.

    With my current gear I have like ~38% avoidance and ~64% block even disregarding potential DRs on block and having 100% uptime on SB the boss will still be hitting me in the face ~11% of the time. Hope shield tanks get an armour/HP buff to bring them level of DKs and Druids

  6. #26
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    The only way to buff shield tanks for their gimpy Mastery is either flat damage reduction (which would then also work on magic damage, making them better dragon breath tanks) or ... shield armor (all plate tanking stuff can be used by DKs). So you'ld be a shitty tank until that tanking shield of that tier drops (because let's face it, we'll only ever see a single shield per tier)

    Time to hit the math and see how mastery competes against avoidance this weekend
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  7. #27
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    What really, really bothers me about the new block system is SHoR and Shield Slam only block the "next" attack. This means that if you're tanking one mob, Mastery is the worst stat, (because it can't apply to your guaranteed block) but if you're tanking more than one mob, Mastery is the best stat. Are you going to have two sets of gear that you have to switch between for one mob/multiple mob fights? Are you going to go reforge everything between bosses? It's ridiculous. Paladins are already going to have to respec their 45 and 90 talents from boss to boss for max effectiveness, now they're adding this?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xequecal View Post
    What really, really bothers me about the new block system is SHoR and Shield Slam only block the "next" attack. This means that if you're tanking one mob, Mastery is the worst stat, (because it can't apply to your guaranteed block) but if you're tanking more than one mob, Mastery is the best stat. Are you going to have two sets of gear that you have to switch between for one mob/multiple mob fights? Are you going to go reforge everything between bosses? It's ridiculous. Paladins are already going to have to respec their 45 and 90 talents from boss to boss for max effectiveness, now they're adding this?
    SB and SHotr increase you chance to block by 25% ofr the next 6 seconds, not just the next attack. I don't see how this means the value of mastery changes depending on how many adds you have beating on you.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    SB and SHotr increase you chance to block by 25% ofr the next 6 seconds, not just the next attack. I don't see how this means the value of mastery changes depending on how many adds you have beating on you.
    SB and SHoR have two effects. The one you mentioned, (SHoR is actually +25% block amount not block chance) and an additional effect where after using it, the next attack against you is automatically blocked.

    When you're tanking one mob only, this makes mastery really really bad, as you get a free block every 6 seconds so your mastery doesn't have any effect at all except for when the mob bypasses your avoidance twice in six seconds. However when you're tanking more than one mob mastery suddenly becomes the best stat since you're taking more attacks and the SS/SHoR effect still only blocks one hit every 6 sec.

  10. #30
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    AFAIK That functionality was changed. Six seconds of +25% block chance is what you get now. I still don't get the whole i take more hits so block more hits. but statistically you're still going to be blocking the same proportion of hits, it's just the amount of incoming attacks that changes.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    AFAIK That functionality was changed. Six seconds of +25% block chance is what you get now. I still don't get the whole i take more hits so block more hits. but statistically you're still going to be blocking the same proportion of hits, it's just the amount of incoming attacks that changes.
    I'm just reading off the official and wowhead talent calculators, I'm not aware of any other change. Both descriptions have the line "and blocking the next melee attack against you." SHoR increases block amount shile SB increases block chance. With this functionality, if you take 4 hits in 6 seconds you'll automatically block one of them, blocking 25% of the total, but if you only take 2 hits in 6 seconds you'll still only block 1 of them, automatically blocking 50% of the total.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xequecal View Post
    automatically blocking
    25% additional blockchance isn't going to automatically block 1 attack.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    25% additional blockchance isn't going to automatically block 1 attack.
    But it would if you had the Gnomeregan Autoblocker 600...right? Right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airowird View Post
    Overall, I think the DR on Mastery will have to be scratched, and for Warriors crit block rolls will have to be alongside normal block roll to be anywhere near competitive.
    If I can get any math done this weekend, I'll see how efficient Mastery is going to end up as, I'm guessing it'll be roughly cut in half for Warriors and roughly quarter down for Paladins.
    I'd have to agree that the DR suggestion to avoid block capping will go no further than a suggestion. Disregarding the block variance from taking boss attacks and examining numbers as-is, our shield bearers would need the following amounts of mastery from their gear to ensure 100% blocked hits.

    Warriors: (100 - 20) / 1.5 - 8 = 45.33~
    Paladins: (100 - 5) / 2.25 - 8 = 34.22~

    That's a lot of mastery, gentlemen.

  15. #35
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    Using the level 85 values, we are talking about 8100 mastery rating for a warrior, and 6100 rating for a paladin. And that is ignoring any DR.

  16. #36
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    The problem is that mastery gets much much better in terms of overall damage reduction the more of it you have. So for the same reason they put DR on armor and avoidance I'm sure they will likely go through with this change.

    On the other hand this new system they are proposing, mastery gets much much worse the more avoidance you have, so if they DO put in DR then all mastery will do is get worse with gear.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    25% additional blockchance isn't going to automatically block 1 attack.
    Are you guys reading the same text I am?

    Instantly slam the target with your shield, causing 3,817 Holy damage and blocking the next melee attack against you. In addition, increases the amount your shield blocks by an additional 25% for 6 sec.

  18. #38
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    Shieldblock from warriors is 25% blockchance, I've not kept up with the pally changes but what you quoted seems overpowered compared to shieldblock, would be more logical if it was just 25% increased blockvalue but who knows what blizzard is doing.

  19. #39
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    Perhaps the changes can be seen in the light of striving towards the "active mitigation"-model that was spoken about as compensation for threat made obsolete?

    Blizzard doesn't want any capping by gearing. But gearing along with skillfully deflecting damange thru a rotation could give a simila result as just gearcapping nowadays? To me that sounds like a fun way to really be a good tank.

    What makes me think that this might not work out is that bad tanks gets punished a lot. Either content must be easy or being a good enough tank must be easy.

    However, if it is really just needed for heroic raids and challenge modes. Well it could be win win for everyone type of player!

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcurrant View Post
    What makes me think that this might not work out is that bad tanks gets punished a lot.
    DK's say hello. Just hitting death strike every time it lits up and using a /castrandom COOLDOWN macro won't help you win a medal.

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