Warrior tank question!

[Brackit]

Here is my armory! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...loval/advanced

Pretty much i'm attempting to hit CtC, currently I dont have a 2nd trinket..so that will help. I started messing around with some regemming (such as pure mastery on my leggings/chest instead of going for the gem bonus) is that a good idea? I got more CtC out of it...like .20 or so. I have ran LFR as a tank the past few weeks, today was the only day somebody called me squishy..but that was mainly due to being impaled and the bolt. :P Other than that I was wondering, am I going in the right direction? I'm tanking my first Normal DS this week..(friday actually) and hoping my toon is good to go! Currently 95.75, so I got a nice gap by friday! Thanks!

[klausi]

You're at 98.15% according to your armory and don't forget about raidbuffs, food and elixir's - putting you at 101.65%. Add a second profession like JC and you could be ready.

Trinkets:
from dungeons either Porcelain Crab (heroic) or Throngus's Finger (heroic),
from reputation Mirror of Broken Images (Baradin Warden, it's still BiS for several fights), Essence of the Eternal Flame (Avenger's of Hyjal) or Stay of Execution (also Avenger's of Hyjal)
from profession Lifebound Alchemist Stone (alchemy)
else: Darkmoon Card: Earthquake (Auction House), Impetuous Query (also Auction House, please not that there's no heroic version even if dataming sites state otherwise).

[Tengenstein]

If you do go pick up JC as a secnd profession you could also probably get a Figurine - Earthen guardian which static stam and dodge on use. Pick up the minor glyph of Demoralizing Shout, as a tank you should be keeping this up as much as possible (100% of the thime you're tanking at least) Since you haven't glyphed it I assume your not doing this, which will add significatly to your squishiness, 10% physical damage reduction will help with impales., you do have a small healthpool in comparison to other more geared tanks, but stam isn't something you should be going for Pre-CTC, healers are just spoiled by having tanks who severly outgear LFR; 160k unbuffed is enough.

Talent wise i'd consider dropping gag order and Thunderstruck for Incite and finishing off Deep Wounds. Glyph of Sunder armour is nice, but not really all that useful, on fights like gunship or deathwing's Terrors it usaully best to focus down one add first than it it to have DPS on both, so you're only really be providing sunder for the melee's Cleave damage.

[Brackit]

I was actually leaning towards taking mining, just because my main income is selling the pvp gear/buckles..and this is my only alliance toon, so I dont have an awesome alt to do that stuff for me atm. :P I actually do keep demo shout up almost 100% of the time, mainly because of that 10% reduction. (Power auras have helped with this) Damage reduction is damage reduction! I will for sure take in consideration of removing Gag order/Thunderstruck! Also Glyph of Sunder armor as well! I was also looking to pick up Glyph of shield wall for those fights I can use it! Overall does it look like im going in the correct direction? I made a bold choice to not go for the gem bonus in my Leggings/chest, was thinking about doing the same with my head. However having that expertise may help...anyways, thanks for your guys help so far! I'm in the process of doing the TB daily quest, not to far off from being able to get Mirror of broken images! Any other input would be awesome!

[Airowird]

You are going in a good direction (although JWC can give mastery or stamina and mining is a fixed bonus, if you have no mining alt it is a decent choice) and as far as socket bonus goes: The chest/legs I should only get past Unhittable (CTC >= 102.4%), drop the head bonus, you shouldn't be needing any expertise. Same goes for the cloak, as a Warrior, I'ld prefer to reforge Expertise to Mastery over Parry.
The Mirror definately would help you on magic fights and its Mastery would probably give enough CTC for you to rethink those chest/leg gems (you can use my spreadsheet to check out numbers before you regem, my Unhittability = CTC adjusted to boss level, so you only need to aim for 100%)

Glyphs:
As major I usually pick up Thunder Clap (easier to pick up packs and less of a fuss on giant hitbox bosses) and Shockwave and then the shout glyphs for minors.

[Brackit]

Thanks for the help guys! I currently still have yet to pick a second profession...however I am now in a tanking in a group that does DS10, so I better get to it I guess! That spreadsheet is awesome! Thanks for directing me to it!

[Brackit]

Alrighty! I'm back..I have had some awesome experience in DS10, getting some decent gear! etc...I was wondering, I use Mr Robot and currently its set to Avoidance cap then stam..well cause mainly I die often and i'm thinking its maybe my HP pool...Like warlord I just get hit like a truck and its terrible! Just was wondering what you guys thought?! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...loval/advanced

[Raij]

Warlord hits harder and harder the more you lower his HP. On Heroic 25 I swap when I get 3 sunders on me. You can use the Fire of the Deep's use coupled with Resolve of the Undying to avoid his Sunders. I actually forgo my usual stam trinkets to further my CTC for Warmaster, as his damage on the tank is almost pure melee. Your HP pool should be more than large enough to soak his shout.

Look through your logs (or link them), and lets see what is killing you. If you are somehow dying to Shout, you may want more Stam (while remaining CTC capped).

Looking at your armory more closely:

You are over the CTC cap while raid buffed. You can start squeezing some more HP out of your gear as you pass cap, and this will help give you a larger cushion for unblockable/magic damage.

[Tengenstein]

Have you got a Log of your warlord fights? what the uptime of Demo shout (or its equivalents)? I'm assuming since you don't glyph it your probably not worrying about it, which is bad. Warlord is all physical damage which means its all affected by the demo shout debuff. There are very few fights where Healthpools are a problem. Generally you only need enough so you don't die before the healers can finish casting at you. DS10 normal is tuned to be done by a raid with an average ilvl of 378. it since been nerfed by 15%. Any extra health past that is certainly nice but by no means a necessity. On warlord i very much doubt your dying becuase you don't have enough HP. Are the healers getting stunned or silenced? are the raid standing in crap? if you're taunting at 3 stacks, or whenver your stack fall off the tank damage is not really very high.

[Brackit]

Apparently the team I run with on Tuesday never runs WoL, so ill run one tonight for you guys! Also i'm talking about Warlord Zon'ozz. Warmaster I do fine on! I normally always keep TC and Demo up, not sure why I wasnt glyphed for it...but I also tank with a paladin so his debuff should be up when mine isnt, but i'll admit there are times I dont keep it up. :P Thanks all!

[Tengenstein]

Oh...you're probably being hit by the ball. Its got a rediculously huge hit box, and if your ranged aren't standing far enough away it ends up rematerializing close enough to hit you when it bounces off the melee. If your tanking Zon'ozz you shouldn't be getting the debuffs from the pally as he should be going Ret. Zon'ozz is pretty simple for tank damage reductions; Get your debufss up, don't get hit by the ball, and have a CD, even if its just spellblock, up for every single psychic drain. other than that its just a case of hoping your deeps don't fuck you by bouncing the ball too many times between black blood phases.


Any reason you skipped Incite?

[Raij]

Oh wow, totally mis-read that for Warmaster. Zonozz as he gains stacks starts to hit faster and harder. Utilizing CDs and external CDs in early kills and early Heroic kills was essential. You can time your second Shield Block with the frontal cone to mitigate the magic damage. I would suggest having a CD rotation for your healers. You run the risk of dying after the conal magic damage where he has medium-high stacks and is hitting hard enough to finish you.

On early Heroic and Normal kills I used something like:

Shield block for Second Cone.
GS 6 Stacks + Cone.
Sac for next Cone.
Last Stand for next Cone if necessary.

This leaves SW up for Black Phase on heroic. Make sure to be applying TC and Demo, as your OT will be busy with a tentacle (on Heroic).

CTC cap is nice for this fight, but having 2 stam trinkets would largely benefit you here I think, when you can CTC cap with out a mastery trinket. If/when you get an Indomitable Pride, I would highly advise you using it.

[Brackit]

Thats what I was thinking, I was for sure the ball was hitting me but the RL was sure it wasnt...They still say i'm to squishy..though thats the life of a warrior I guess. Also, our RL is odd..he has the other tank just dps without RF on ...because I die so often in that fight so they can pick em up. I figured it was just healers. :P

[Brackit]

How well does Mr Robot help with warrior CTC? I was going to regem as it stated but was afraid it would be terrible. :P

[Raij]

Warriors aren't squishy, this is simply just a Blood DK tier. It requires us to be a little more thoughtful in the way we gear for each fight. Try using Mirror for the cone as well, as it deals shadow damage (I believe). I swap trinkets (even on farm) for most fights, and glyphs for several as well. I also ran 2 protection specs to get the most out of warrior tanking until we were on farm (I now abuse speccing arms for Str Flasks).

If you don't have a healer CD rotation set, try setting one, and calling for the CDs individually. Heroic Mode pre nerf was ridiculously hard on 25 man in terms of tank damage. Without those CDs we would never have killed it. Getting used to it on normal mode is a good idea!

Edit:

In regards to Mr Robot: I prefer using chardev.org and playing with different gem setups personally.

[Tengenstein]

Get something like Deathnote, or even the deaths portion of skada or recount and it should show what happened just before you died. If something called "void diffusion" is on there you where hit by the ball's bounce blast.

Edit: I don't use ask mr robot, it alright but i found it was a bit meh unless you knew exactly what you where doing with caps. i use Fetzie warrior spreadsheet for calculating CTC and then do some number crunching myself. It's not that hard, it tells you how much mastery rrating you can lose and then you just change gems to have stam instead of mastery until you lost that amount of mastery.

[Raij]

Yeah. Just looking at Mr. Robot, it tells you to do some things that are a bit odd, ie using the WoTLK 40 Stam to Bracer chant over the dodge. Sure it's better for overall optimization the way IT gems, however weighing 50 dodge vs the 40 stam, the 50 dodge is arguably better. All in all, in it's optimizations it only reduces my CTC by .01, giving me 102.41 CTC cap buffed, and gains me 53 hp...but it skews my dodge and parry, giving me higher parry than dodge, and increasing parry's DR, which I dislike.

[Tengenstein]

Higher parry than dodge is actually a good thing once you're CTC capped though.

[Raij]

For Hold the Line? That is true, however I'm not sure if it did it on purpose.

[Tengenstein]

It is on purpose and for most of the expansion (i.e pre warrior CTC capped) was for the wrong reason. People read this post on MMO-C, and whilst it is correct what people took away was that Parry was worth more to warriors than dodge so you should have a little more parry than dodge, and from this people looked at the graph and where like "ooh must have more parry" and other hyperbolic bullcrap that you get for taking something out of context. And so askmrrobot generally has had a slightly higher weighting for parry than for dodge.

However what everyone seems to completely ignore is the following sentence of post linked;

When you are still hittable, the damage reduction given by Hold the Line is, relatively, not as important as keeping your dodge and parry balanced and covering the combat table.