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Thread: Prot Taking too much damage

  1. #1
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    Prot Taking too much damage

    Hello, I've recently switched from MS Arms to MS Prot And Hopefully will Start running Some LFR/Raids Soon enough. However it appears to me in HOT Heroics that i am taking way to much damage. I'm Keeping Shield block up at all times I'm at (i believe) 90% CTC Before shield block. Using revenge on CD And even rotating my trinket/Shield wall and Last stand. but after nearly Every Trash pull and With out a doubt every Boss the healer is Completely tapped out.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Ike/advanced

    I realize that i have Dps Shoulders on, but no tanking shoulders have dropped and i believe that Since i'm over 77.4% CTC that the extra sta would be better then more Dodge/mastery on the blue Justice Legacy Shoulders. I've got on my wishlist for Heroic gear atm: The ring from the second boss in Well of Eternity, and the Trinket and tank shoulders off the last boss in Hour of twilight.

    I hold threat very well My rotation normally looks like this;

    Single Target: Charge, Rend, Shield Slam, Revenge, Tcap, Demo Shout, Devisate,
    And using Heroic Strike every time I've got Excess rage, Aswell as using Shockwave after three stacks of Thunderstruck.

    Multitarget: Charge, Rend, Tcap, Shockwave, Revenge, Cleave

    I'm Currently holding off on any Enchants untill i Round out my gear and figure out why i'm taking too much damage. but will Clearly enchant everything once i've gotten ready to raid properly.

    Thank you for any advice in advance
    -Stephen
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  2. #2
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    a) enchant your gear
    b) more reforging!
    helmet: parry to dodge
    shoulder: crit to mastery
    cloak: parry to dodge
    wrist: dodge to mastery
    gloves: hit to dodge
    panties: parry to mastery
    feet: exp to mastery
    weapon: parry to dodge

    This should put you at 95.79% ctc raidbuffed & 192k hitpoints with a flask or 97.67% ctc with two elixirs & 184k hitpoints raidbuffed.*

    * if you don't have a druid or paladin in your 5 man group use drums for an extra 4% stats + some resistances, it's cheap and 50 charges last some time.

    Easy upgrades:
    - craftable wrists with three times epic gem = +1% ctc +900 hitpoints
    - boe boots with 2 fractured amberjewel = +0.8% ctc +1.3k hitpoints
    - either ilvl 390 pvp shoulders = +0.17% ctc & +950 hitpoints or 378 5 mans tanking ones = +1% ctc +0 hitpoints

    ---

    If you take to much damage CC more. Don't be afraid to ask for it, better than dying Use stuns to interrupt nasty spells when pummel is on cooldown and reflect won't work. Did you try all your heroics with only one healer? Your gear isn't THAT bad that an evenly geared healer should have this many problems keeping you alive. And what's about the dps, how long does those fight last? Do they help on interrupt and deal more than 15k each with 15% LFD buff? If not it's maybe neither yours not your healers fault, those fights maybe just take to long

  3. #3
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    Thank you for your answer. I have noticed some rather bad dps. having just switched to tanking i was super focused on my threat rotation and failed to notice that the fights were dragging on extremely long. All the dps doing under 10K w/ the 15% buff bad >.<; I'm working on the enchants.

    On a side note is it good to go above 77.4% CTC? aren't those just wasted points i could put into EHP instead or should i aim for a 'hard cap' of sorts?
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  4. #4
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    Hard cap, 77.4% was interesting for 346/359 gear @ t11, since the end of t12 you can reach the hard cap rather easily.

  5. #5
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    102.4 = win.

  6. #6
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    little bit of a zombie thread here

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Ike/advanced

    I'm now at 96% ish CTC unbuffed, However i've come across a few more questions that I've been unable to find easy answers too

    1) What weapon enchant should i use? Wind walker looks nice but if i'm already CTC capped...?

    2) after i cap CTC Does STAM become my Primary stat? if in some magical world where i cap ctc w/o a mastery trinket should i use two sta trinkets or does say the Dodge trinket from spine still have a good weight to it?

    3) What cloak enchant am i supposed to use? there has to be something better then 250 armor that I'm just not seeing

    4) I've changed my Spec a bit to give more Damage with deep wounds, did i jack anything up when i did it?

    5) and finally at my Current gear level do you say it's safe to assume i can tank a ds10 nm? i realize I've got one 359 ring but I've been queue'n for HOT randoms all day and only gotten one WOE.

    Thanks again in advance, all the help issued so far has given me what i needed to get through the 'oh god that hurt' phase of lower gear levels. it is much appreciated
    Last edited by gd_void; 02-20-2012 at 05:21 PM.
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  7. #7
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    1) WInd walk will still turn a few of your blocks into dodges, which is nice and the speed increase is pretty awesome. there really isn't much in the way of alternatives though.

    2) yup once CTC s achieved your stat priority shfts to Stam>Parry>=Dodge>mastery. Trinkets should be decided upon based on that priority. If you need the stacking dodge to be unhittable that's fine, if you don't its kinda bleh as unlike weapon enchants, there are better alternatives.

    3)Nope, the next best one in the way of defence is 18 dodge rating.

    4) Ideally from a Max DPS point of wiew you would drop either THunderstruck or Imp. Rev for Cruelty. which one will depend on how you feel about the 2pc T13 bonus, and dropping revenge from your rotation. dependant upon how much stam and how bigh your base weapon damage is Revenge just may not be worth using. If you're not to fussed about min maxing your DPS as a tank your current build is fine.

    5) Very Yes. THink of it this way you're meant to go straight from killing Firelands normal to killing dragon soul normal. so DS10 is tuned to be done in the gear you get from Firelands (ilvl378) on launch day. Since then DS has had a 5% nerf so you could proabbly go in in about 365 gear and still have challenging but not brickwall raid. This Guy, is one of our DPS's alts and as a joke we got him to tank our alt run the last two weeks... half way through Ultraxion "Dude you are using Holy shield right?" "...it activates automatically doesn't it?". You should fine.

  8. #8
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    I'll answer what I can but, since I'm at work, it's just some of the general stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    1) ...Wind walker looks nice but if i'm already CTC capped...?
    When windwalk procs, you'll have a higher chance to take no damage since your dodge will be higher, and a higher chance to critical block since anything extra goes to critical block for warriors. Mastery isn't wasted on warriors as it is on paladins. I believe that windwalk is always the better choice. I believe that even paladins who are CTC capped use windwalk because it's better to have a higher chance of taking zero damage. Warriors just benefit from it more because of the critical block component.

    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    3) What cloak enchant am i supposed to use? there has to be something better then 250 armor that I'm just not seeing
    Stick with 250 armor. Crit does nothing but increase your dps, intellect does nothing but make you smarter (who ever heard of a smart warrior?)... armor is still a tank's friend.

    Sorry, I can't help you with the armory stuff currently but I'm sure someone else can.


    ****Tengenstein won this race...****
    Bears are strong.

  9. #9
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    It's only when we have Shield Block active that any CTC over the cap is converted to extra Crit Block. It's not like wind walk Procs> crit block chance goes up.

    EDIT: the only real tanking alternative is Mending, which is 15% chance to heal you for 800. which is very small in comparison to your average boss swing. Maybe on Yor'sahj where's there are practicall bugger all melee, but even then the healing from it pales in comparison to voidbolt damage.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 02-20-2012 at 07:50 PM.

  10. #10
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    ooo zombie thread, Sorry about this.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Ike/advanced

    I've increased my Gear quite a bit Since my Original post however, now i feel that i am taking Much too much damage in raids.

    Actualy ended up having to leave a raid this week due to Not being able to Survive a 9 stack abom on Spine. I'm able to breeze through doing the same thing on my Death knight, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Oit/advanced (ignore the sword it's a running joke), with only two heals instead of three. My warrior is now unbuffed over the CTC cap 103% i believe is where he is currently at, and yet i'm still running into the dreaded 'squishy' comments. I've still got three unenchanted items, and that's only because i'm wow broke atm XD.

    I'm just wondering if i can do anything differantly, or are warriors just as broken as everyone seems to say they are? I'm keeping up Shield block i'm using Revenge for the bubble, but i still seem to take more damage then for example a Worse geared DK or bear.
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  11. #11
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    I believe that even paladins who are CTC capped use windwalk because it's better to have a higher chance of taking zero damage.
    If I am honest, I'm putting Landslide on the next weapon that drops. The survivability aspect of Windwalk is so small in comparison to being CTC capped, and the Attack Power boost would help me by increasing WoG healing.

    Have you tried using the Mirror (mastery + resist use) at spine to mitigate some of the fire AoE damage when the Amalgamation has 9 stacks?

  12. #12
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    For a Warrior however More CTC = More Crit block isn't it? So Windwalk would still be an increase instead of a Dps/tps Change
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  13. #13
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    As was said earlier in the thread, excess Block is only converted to Critical Block when you have Shield Block active. Other than those 10 seconds every 30(?) excess Block (i.e. excess CTC) is wasted (OK you still get 1.5% crit block per mastery, but that isn't exactly the bees' knees). Boosting your avoidance continues to be good, but when you cross that line of "full CTC", replacing block with avoidance isn't really very good when compared to mastery pre-CTC cap.


    More Mastery = More Crit block. Getting more Avoidance has no direct impact on your Crit Block chance.
    Last edited by Fetzie; 03-23-2012 at 02:35 AM.

  14. #14
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    If you time it right you shouldn't have 9 stacks on the abom for long and you should have shieldwall up every time, got last stand as o shit button if you drop low. Are you tracking demoshout?

    Gear looks alright but get a few more stamina & stamina/mastery gems in there think that with food/raidbuffs you are around 104% CTC you can afford to loose some to get the socketbonuses. And fix those last few chants just run a 5man and buy mats with jp.

  15. #15
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    What I Normally Do is Kite the abom to the blood When it his 1m hp left(10man), Once it hits 9 Stacks ill Try to Heroic Leap back to the wall, And turn around asap, I've become very Anal about keeping Tcap and Demo shout up at all times. I try to Shield wall 9 stacks more so for the Raid damage reduction then my own, but it helps me stay up aswell. i will however look into getting the mirror and see if that helps
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  16. #16
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    Are you tanking with your guild or with a PUG? Because listening to your tactics and looking at your gear, I can't see that the problem is with you.

    I think Spine is mainly a healers' challenge - but in your gear, they should be able to keep you up. I have a paladin with about the same gear and never feel in much danger. How many healers do you have? We use 3. Do you use an off-tank to round up the bloods (to keep them off the healers etc.)? I guess you do given what you said about kiting at low health.

    DKs are supposed to be good this tier, but there's no way a competent warrior with your gear should have to quit that fight.

  17. #17
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    Last two weeks i was subbing in on my guilds second raid team, this week was a pug. I do Feel Quite a bit squishier then my dk. yes the ot is picking up the bloods.
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

  18. #18
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    I don't see any combat logs so I do have one question. Is it the melee attacks or Nuclear Blast that was killing you? Cause there is really no reason for warrior tank to take the damage from Nuclear Blast. Reason being is once the Hideous Amalgamation starts casting Nuclear Blast the Hideous Amalgamation will not be moving any more. For other tank classes it can be harder to get out of due to the Grasping Tendrils slowing them down but I have seen them still get out in time. As a warrior you have Intervene that will give you this distance easily enough even with the slow debuff on you. I normally Intervene the off tank handling the bloods but almost any range or healer should work just as well.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gd_void View Post
    Last two weeks i was subbing in on my guilds second raid team, this week was a pug.
    Honestly, I suspect it's a case of "the tank dies, it's the healers fault". Yes, shield tanks may now be squishier than DKs, but they can still get the job done.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geach View Post
    Is it the melee attacks or Nuclear Blast that was killing you?
    Melee attacks are What is killing me, I Thought about it last night and could the extra damage from Corruption holes(drawing a blank as to what it's called atm) just be the tipping point? I try and always spawn the tentacle on the same side so the dps know where it's going to be and dont waste time looking for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by theodisius View Post
    Honestly, I suspect it's a case of "the tank dies, it's the healers fault". Yes, shield tanks may now be squishier than DKs, but they can still get the job done.
    I guess that's possible, I should mention that all my Deaths were on the First Plate. I Do try to Announce what I'm doing on that fight. I.E. 'Gathering bloods at a million hp' 'Gathering stacks now', Kinda feels like a Cop out tho in line with 'I'm not bad you're bad'

    However geach brings up an interesting point that i am woefully unprepared, I'm not even sure how to save a parse to say WOL or anything, how do i go about that so that next time i'm having a problem i can post one of those to perhaps show exactly what went wrong
    US|Thrall|Horde Yea, I Love Plate
    Ike(Fury Warrior) Oit(Dk Tank) Oiz(Holy Pally)

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