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Thread: Thunderfury was nice, but...

  1. #41
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    She "got in good" with one of their loot council officers, I can't even remember what guild anymore. Basically he made it so her DKP bid was the winner every time. Was epic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    Nobody who's had to make (or be part of making) the decision about who gets a lengedary (even if it's not the first...even if it's the second or 3rd) wants a legendary. They are nothing but drama magnets...and for not-unreasonable reasons either...do you give it to the guy who "deserves it" (aka, the guy who's been in the guild longer, doing raids longer, been there for all the progression, is a good guy) or the guy who might make more use of it (aka, the new guy who dps's more (or better), but hasn't been there long, hasn't proved himself as a good solid member of the guild yet)? Both of them have reasonable expectations and arguments for why they should get it...you risk drama either way you decide. Hell, you even risk LOSING one of them if you chose the wrong way.

    Why even make that situation come up? What does it add to the game? What's "legendary" about stupid drama?
    I think the drama could be eliminated if they didn't make class exclusive legendary weapons, or at least they ditched the amount of time it takes to create one, but still made it challenging enough to get one. The problem with current legendary quests is that they require so many drops in order to create them. Get rid of item drops, or at least make a couple of their pieces for creation drop off bosses, while the rest require you to do special events during boss encounters like Vala'nyr and Shadowmourne as well as out of raid quests that you can do solo or with a small group, in order to create them. Especially if you are talking about tanking legendary items, which could actually get your tanks involved in boss encounters more then just being meat shields. I think the obvious flaw with tanking legendary weapons is that you have to design more then one and whatever special effect it has, would pretty much be like a 3rd trinket as opposed to increasing damage or healing.


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  3. #43
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    Making them class exclusive actually eliminates some of the drama Ion was describing, as it reduces the number of choices. But it causes a raft of issues (which I think you are alluding to) about relative class balancing/favouritism.

    There are so many problems with legendary weapons, it's easy to overlook the good things:
    - they give a guild an opportunity to recognise a player. Giving and getting recognition can be a very good thing.
    - they (can) add some variety to the weekly raid farm. Doing special kills or extra event bosses can be a fun addition to the regular raiding week (provided it's not too much hassle).
    - they can give you a feeling of progression even when you are just in farm mode. "Yay we forged a legendary" is a morale boost, alot like "yay we killed a new boss" - but one that happens later in the cycle when the rate of new boss kills has probably slowed.
    - they can be a reward for the whole guild. (I've no idea why they didn't do a little batman pet for the guild for the rogue legendary)

    The problems mostly result from the fact that legendary weapons give you extra performance or ability. Mage with legendary > Mage without legendary = as many sad mages as happy ones. Tank with legendary > Tank without legendary = sad RAID groups in addition to a bunch of sad 'offtanks', not to mention the sad guilds who give their tank a legendary who then gets head hunted by a high progression guild.

    I think it would be possible to do a tank legendary. Here are some of the things you could do to make it happen:
    - it should be fairly simple to craft the first stage legendary, and it should be available to any tank class.
    - any special 'powers' that the legendary grants should be granted at the entry level. e.g. if the legendary gave you a 30% raid wall, the entry level should give you the same ability (or only very slightly less, like 25%)
    - any special powers should also have a hypothermia/exhaustion style cooldown, so that you can't chain multiples.
    - the difference between the entry level and higher levels should be minor in terms of raw performance, but perhaps focus on cool factor and quality of life. e.g. automatically applying the thunderclap debuff to your target like thunderfury - that's not a major buff to performance but it's a nice to have; making you bigger and redder and starting to emit smoke the higher your vengeance scales would be cool but not performance impacting;
    - there must be something about this legendary which makes it actively bad for DPS to use. Maybe it's dps scales specifically with vengeance in some way.

  4. #44
    It most likely will be a tanking legendary next, unless they wanna stick with class specific ones for the time being. Just makes sense to make something that tanks can use as every group has had their legendary.
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  5. #45
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    Nobody who's had to make (or be part of making) the decision about who gets a lengedary (even if it's not the first...even if it's the second or 3rd) wants a legendary.
    Never ever had an issue with that even when people that got it left shortly after getting it for specific reasons. Depends on with whom you raid

  6. #46
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    So my new guild just got their first madness kill last week and I was awarded the 2h sword since we don't have any 2h dps other than me on a few bosses that I don't tank. DPS went up almost 10k. I guess I got my legendary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  7. #47
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    Not to necro a thread, but since there's been some news on legendaries in MoP, rather than start a new thread, I though't it made more sense to continue this one.

    So it appears that every class is going to be able to get a legendary in MoP http://www.wowhead.com/news. This raises a question in my mind as to will these be real legendary items that are OP (Daggars, Staff, etc) like the Cata ones, or will these be Little League "every body gets a trophy" legendaries - Oranges for everybody. If the latter, and it feels like that's the way they're going, then the whole idea behind a legendary seems cheapened.

    I've never believed that one "earns" something in a video game, or some one "works hard" in a video game; but doing things in the game that lead to novel items or things is fun and it's fun to crack the code to get it - you solved the puzzle and that gives a sense of fun accomplishment. Making legendaries for everybody seems to take a lot of the fun out of it, I don't know could just be me, but I'm a bit disappointed they're doing this.

    In the interest of full disclosure I'm on the Rogue quest for the legendaries but there is no danger of me ever getting more than the 48/333 gems I have before MoP drops; since all get to do these days is heal and tank.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Gamebreaking gear for one class sucks. epic quest chains for all do not.
    Yeah. Instead of legendaries, they should do class specific quest chains, much like the battered hilt line, and the old vanilla hunter/priest items. Would remove alot of the drama over legendaries (although my guild hasn't ever really had any drama over who gets them, I can see where it would cause issues) while still allowing people to acquire some fairly unique items.

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  9. #49
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    If the quest is epic enough the rewards are not important.

  10. #50
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    They could make the items something that would be viable for the expansion, so with the first raid patch you get an epic item of a slightly higher ilevel than the heroic endboss loot, then the next raid patch you'd upgrade through furthering the quest chain, and continue until say the final raid patch is added you can now further the chain to its conclusion and upgrade your item to its legendary status. eh? eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  11. #51
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    It seems that the quest chain continues through the second patch with the quest "Incoming", or I could be reading it wrong. I like the idea of Quel'thalar type quests. I guess Warthion will give some flexiblity to bring back a bad guy dragon at some point.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    They could make the items something that would be viable for the expansion, so with the first raid patch you get an epic item of a slightly higher ilevel than the heroic endboss loot, then the next raid patch you'd upgrade through furthering the quest chain, and continue until say the final raid patch is added you can now further the chain to its conclusion and upgrade your item to its legendary status. eh? eh?
    I like the premise of the "improving item". I don't like the idea of it being "slightly higher ilvl" than heroic end-boss loot. you pretty much automatically make that gear BiS or near BiS by doing that, and make it compulsory for raiders.

    Again, I like the idea of an evolving, unique weapon. I would just make it something suitable for raiding in the current tier, not even the best item to come out of that tier (translation: raid bosses still drop superior gear). Maybe you can make it upgradeable into a "heroic tier" weapon by collecting an item off the normal end-boss. But honestly, I'm against making it ANY sort of advantage over boss loot. If it's truly a "lore piece" and a pretty-shiny that people will want for its unique look or for the simple value of completing a cool challenge, sweet.... then I'm all for it. I mean, make it something that once they go through the arduous task of acquiring it, they're going to want it, and it'll still be relevant to current material. Key word being.... relevant, not dominant.

    Last edited by Leucifer; 06-15-2012 at 03:09 PM. Reason: grammatical error
    No one tanks in a void.........

  13. #53
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    Ok, so make it on-par with the endboss ilevel, and the requirement to finally obtain the item would correlate to something around killing that boss, be it drops like the dagger gem clusters, or what have you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  14. #54
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    I like it!
    No one tanks in a void.........

  15. #55
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    The balancing issues they cause are the worst by far. As for guild drama people need to get over it.

    I was almost overlooked for Shadowmourne by a Paladin that had joined the guild after myself. I thought it would go by seniority and thought it would go to another Paladin before me (I guess they liked my attendance better). I didn't say anything when I was overlooked not wanting to cause drama. Other members spoke up for me fortunately and the our GM who had just taken over apologized for his negligence.

    I've always tried to be humble about loot distribution, I've felt cheated a few times I was in a Loot Council guild but its inevitable in such a system. I've always despised loot whores so I refuse to whine about purplez when I'm steadily getting as geared as I need to be.

    Either way Legendaries are so damn easy to obtain these days. In Vanilla Legendaries were a full on guild effort to obtain and took much more time to acquire. Now you can pay a higher end guild to let you get the things you need.
    The guild that awarded me the Shadowmourne shards broke up when I was up to about 20-30 so I got the rest from GDKP runs....so Legendary bro....

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    I am piggybacking this based on Tengenstein's statement in this thread.


    Prot warriors had an awesome legendary in Vanilla, and many warriors used it up to first kills in Black Temple (seen videos of kungen using it on firsts).

    Either way, I think we shield tanks are way overdue for a legendary. In Naxx, Atiesh was given to all staff classes. In BC, DW DPS warriors/rogues got the Glaives, and hunters had a bow from Sunwell. In Wrath, healers had a hammer from Ulduar and tank DKs and DPS 2h classes had Shadowmourne. In Cataclysm, we have a DPS caster staff and now Rogue-only Fangs of the Father (rogues could use Tfury, Glaives before this as well).

    It's high time for either: a 1h tank weapon, or a really ultra-badass shield.


    Thoughts?
    Shield/1h tank weapons are second in my list of priorities. I'd go with an Agility staff first. Bear Druids and Hunters haven't really gotten anything ever really. Thor'idal doesn't really count. This would work for Bear/Cat druids, Hunters, and Monks, so it would work out really well for a wide cross section, and hit their newest class.

    Shield/1h tank weapons are second on my list maybe, but not that they want all 4 tank classes to be balanced, that would cause a problem. It worked really well back in Vanilla and TBC when warriors were clearly meant to be THE tanks, but now if only 2 of the tanking classes had legendaries, there would be a perception that a legendary tank (i.e. not a bear or DK) would be needed for real progression.
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  17. #57
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    What about a Polearm that on use switched to a Sword/Axe type weapon? (I prefer Axe, because Alliance always gets the damn exp racial benefits!). I can definately see some Chen Stormstout lore on this weapon that could 'magicly' extend it's handle to reach where he needed or something like that, would seem a good fit and it'ld fit all tanking classes! (not to mention it's right up in the MoP Panda lore)
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  18. #58
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    this weapon that could 'magicly' extend it's handle to reach where he needed or something like that,
    I'd be asking myself why a gnome hasn't though about this already

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    Thor'idal doesn't really count.
    Lolwut?

    Thor'idal doesn't really count? How so? Geez. I don't think Shadowmourne counts either now that I think of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    Shield/1h tank weapons are second on my list maybe, but not that they want all 4 tank classes to be balanced, that would cause a problem. It worked really well back in Vanilla and TBC when warriors were clearly meant to be THE tanks, but now if only 2 of the tanking classes had legendaries, there would be a perception that a legendary tank (i.e. not a bear or DK) would be needed for real progression.
    Agree. It'd cause some problems with the whole "tank balance" thing. Also, if you tweaked it to make it so the weapon could be turned into a polearm for bears or 2H for DK.... you might very well end up creating a call for it for dps classes. Reason why?... Likely one of the stats would be mastery (the catch all stat) which would still make it useful to dps.

    Oh. And because pallies don't need more love. Had to throw that in just for Fetz.
    No one tanks in a void.........

  20. #60
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    Thor'idal was lower dps than some of the epics available. The only thing legendary about Thor'idal was that it didn't require arrows.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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