I can't speak for the official forums, but the reason our guild will not turn it off is because the challenge is as much about beating the guilds we're competing with as beating the boss. So unless all the other guilds in our tier (we're 4/8-25, probably 5/8-25 next week) agree to turn it off ... we won't either. It's inevitable that we will beat these bosses, the goal is to beat them before our neighbors do as that's the real competition for us. We're fighting to be the 2nd 8/8 25 man on our realm and hunting for maybe top 200 world 25 man. So unless we can guarantee the other 100 or so 25 mans worldwide and the 3 other 25s on our realm all also turn it off ... whether we want to or not we simply have no choice.
It has absolutely nothing to do with standing in org with my fancy purples (which I don't ... I log on exactly 8.5 hours a week to raid plus maybe 1 hour a week to enchant/gem/reforge and then don't login at all ... I exist in org less than an hour each week). Again I can't speak for the official forums, nor do I really care because I doubt they represent the sum of players out there, but that is why my guild cannot turn off the buff ... whether we want to or not. Anecdotally I know this is how most of my guildies and several players from other guilds look at it.
It's not condensation (and I could really care less if I were being condescending to most of the mouth breathers on the official forums), it's a fact - it's a video game and in the scope of life using a video game to say people need to "earn things, or people aren't entitled, or people get respect" is not only silly but in a lot of ways sad - really, to some you get respect because you have really cool purples and show them off in SW and get pissed because others you believe are less worthy get these same color pixels? Please, that's so far removed from what earns respect that it's not even funny.
Why is it that people can't take pride or feel accomplishment in a "silly game"? What makes a game any less worthy than the millions of other things people do for enjoyment, accomplishment, etc? I never quite got that.
It's like a guy who gets a hole in one, then complains that the golf course should never move the tee closer to the hole cause he earned that hole in one and now anyone who gets a hole in one after him off the closer tee hasn't earned it like he did.
Basically, the people that want Blizzard to protect them from having to make a choice are the ones I laugh at. You have a choice, it's a cop-out to say you don't. There's a zillion social guilds out there who *don't* care about competition that will have a choice to nerf or not to nerf.
Last edited by mavfin; 01-20-2012 at 12:31 PM.
The nerf seems a bit early especially since it was the Holidays and people were naturally not around, I'm wondering if MoP is, dare I say it, ahead of schedule and the want to get as many people though this content as possible while it's still relevant? Or, they've determined that a major cause of subscription loss was the inability of the majority of players to do the early Cata content and they're being pro active.
I say it feel early just based on my guild's experience, we downed Madness on Jan 5; about a week later then we should have but had lost our MT to RL travel so we took a couple tries on Madness the week before, but nothing really concerted. That has given us 2 raid lock outs to attempt heroics and we'll have 1 more before the 5% (not that 5% is a real game changer). I don't think we were really above average in our Madness kill time we were like 11th on our server and probably a week or 3 behind most guilds who killed it early, but still that's really Blizz giving 5 week or 6 weeks to work on Heroic content pre-nerf. Seems short to me.
Then again, I do know we can turn it off, but I'm talking in terms of pure timing i.e. when would they normally apply this type of thing.
That said those are not the only two positions against the nerf. There are plenty of other valid positions including things like conditioning the public to expect nerfs which sets a potentially dangerous precedent when it comes to what raids are or can be. There's others such as "the raid is already seriously easy, what the hell?" Finally there's others as well, such as my own where I personally feel that my accomplishments post-nerf are worth less than pre-nerf but due to the competitive environment we're unable to disable it. There's plenty of other valid positions against the nerf that are non-knee jerk. That said I also freely admit there are valid positions FOR the nerf as well ... just because idiots scream the loudest does not mean they have the only opinion.
You donīt have a choice. If you turn off the buff/debuff, you will progress slower, fall behind comparable other guilds and you wonīt be able to recruit the players you want (and need) to recruit - which further slows down your progression and makes recruiting even more difficult.Basically, the people that want Blizzard to protect them from having to make a choice are the ones I laugh at. You have a choice, it's a cop-out to say you don't. There's a zillion social guilds out there who *don't* care about competition that will have a choice to nerf or not to nerf.
So yeah, if constantly recruiting worse players is an option, you do have a choice.
Also, there's a lot of other people that will like the choice, so, you fit into the 'wanting Blizzard to protect you from having to make a choice' category.
There's always a choice, just because one does not like one of options, does not mean there is not choice; it may be a Hobson's Choice, but it is a choice none the less.
Making an Achievement for completing without the nerf has been mentioned, not a great solution, but it might stop a lot of the moaning and groaning.
We finally got into DS last night after clearing FL so our 'lock could finally get his legendary, which he did and the proceeded to mess up turning it in by staying in raid, so he had 1/2 of Stormwind at prime time gathered around him while he floated on the pad and he couldn't complete the ritual until he abandoned quest, then re-spoke to whoever he had to speak too in the Cathedral and finally turned into the Blue Dragon - it was pretty cool.
We then ventured into DS and to be honest the 5% really wasn't noticeable - not like the huge FL nerf. We got H Morchok, but that was going to happen nerf or no nerf, then cleared the rest of Siege (we do a new heroic every week, basically, we take our time). I can't say that we really felt the nerf; I mean the healing felt about the same, maybe a bit less damage going around, but in no way is the 5% going to push people through content they weren't on the doorstep of beating anyway.
I dunno we went from noy dying instantly on the 1st P2 of HC Zon'ozz to dying in pairs in the second p2.
My other half built her own hutch and pen to keep her chickens in. It is by no means a small structure and took a lot of effort in construction (with some help from your's truly on the heavy lifting) and her chickens (well bantams really) are really happy in it (2 or 3 eggs a day).
My partner has known all along that buying a hutch was an option, but she would rather put the time and effort into building something to her exacting specifications. She is immensely proud of her achievement (which has stood up to 110mph winds) and I am proud of her as well.
If someone next door trucked in a similar chicken-coop from "chicken-coops-R-us" tomorrow, it would in NO WAY be a kick in the ribs. It would do NOTHING to cheapen her sense of achievement. Indeed, she'd probably even feel more satisfied in seeing someone else have to pay for what she was able to achieve through her own hard work.
Having your sense of achievement "cheapened" by someone else having the option to do it easier than you, is nonsense and if such things bother you, you'll struggle to be happy. What would cheapen a sense of "achievement" for me is if I was only able to do something (I cared about) under the "easier" option, because I wouldn't feel like I'd done it properly. Going back to the chicken-coop example, it would have diminished my other half's sense of achievement if she'd not been able to finish her chicken-coop and either a) got someone to build it for her or b) had to buy one instead.
a) having someone "cheapen" your sense of achievement by doing it via an easier option = nonsense.
b) having your sense achievement being "cheapened" by taking the easier option when you couldn't do it the hard/normal way = fair enough.
Outside of that you won't notice those 5% if your raid picked up some ugrades last id you might have killed boss x this week anyway and if not you probably won't kill him this week either.