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Thread: Dragonsoulwell Radiance

  1. #1
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    Dragonsoulwell Radiance

    During the scheduled server maintenance on the week of January 31, the Dragon Soul raid will become enveloped by the “Power of the Aspects” spell, reducing the health and damage dealt of all enemies in the raid by 5%. This spell will grow progressively stronger over time to reduce the difficulty and make the encounters more accessible. The spell will affect both normal and Heroic difficulties, but it will not affect the Looking for Raid difficulty.

    The spell can also be disabled by talking to Lord Afrasastrasz at the beginning of Dragon Soul, if a raid wishes to attempt the encounters without the aid of the Dragon Aspects.
    Seems to me that Blizzard are 'doing it right' here:
    - Announced in advance (so you know how long you've got to beat 'pre-nerf')
    - Option to disable (for masochists)
    - Gradual 'nerf over time' rather than firelands-style big cut
    - At least one month between content release and auto-nerf kicking in

    Is there any reason they shouldn't just plan to do this for all instances? By the time it kicks in, chances are you will welcome the helping hand (even if you don't like to admit it).

  2. #2
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    I'm surprised by this with LFR around - but at least you can disable it; that should stop a lot of the QQ; except from those who like to sit around in Org or SW in their 410 shines and talk about how they "earned" theirs.

    I can't see this going high than 15%; I mean can you see DS normal with a 30% damage reduction, that would be silly.

    Perhaps one of the best blue responses to the arrogant ass "hardcore" QQ:

    "I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?

    Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game."
    Last edited by Theotherone; 01-19-2012 at 07:42 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    - At least one month between content release and auto-nerf kicking in
    it will not be a auto nerf.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...904229?page=10

    from the blue post:

    Well the nerfs are going to be progressive enough, as I said, I don't see a 5% change being a big enough change for Raid Finder players to suddenly start clearing Normal. We also don't know where we'll end up. We plan to increase the spell by 5% about every month, but we're not sure if we'll need to. If we see a lot of people able to keep progressing and downing bosses, maybe 5% is all we need. It's going to be watching completion numbers and seeing where that gets us. We're not assuming we'll need to go as far as we did with ICC. It's not going to be automatic, our hand is on the dial.

  4. #4
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    30% less damage will play out like this:

    Morchok: Will make a joke more of a joke
    Yor'sahj: This fight feels pretty declawed since the nerf, another nerf will just further it.
    Zon'ozz: 5% is maybe needed, 30% will be over kill, the black phase will become L-O-L worthy as it increases
    Hagara: All the more reason to ignore all the mechanics
    Ultraxion: After all these weeks of gear and you still can't kill it I feel sorry for you.
    Gunship: On 10's it needs a slight nerf, on 25's the fight isn't that hard, honestly if you can't get 25 people to do the work of 10 just go sit down.
    Spine: On Heroic, the initial nerf may do more harm then good. The fight is a balancing act where you have to kill a corruption and hideous elemental thingy at the same time. If you change the health of the corruption (and not the damage to break stun) you will have less time to dps the burning tendon, while it will have 5% less health that won't help the fact that the dps check will likely be impossible with 3 dps down.
    Madness: It will make it feel even less epic.

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  5. #5
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    I'm interested to see where we'll end up pre-nerf, since we've wasted three lockouts clearing on just normal mode. Holidays and RL getting in the way, since we really only have a core 10, if we miss one person we're forced to pug and our RL will not attempt heroics with a pug - he's really pissy that way. Then again the pugs we brought have all gotten Destroyer's End.

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    I still just don't get it. Not really too upset by the nerf since its the last content of the tier ... but if they do this between tiers it just more or less guarantees that everyone starts the next tier in full heroics ... further thinning out the already thin content since normals will be a joke for 50% of the guilds at that point. Again this doesn't mean anything as part of the final tier because gear progression is lulz ... but I certainly fear this precedent. As it is this tier of normals is the fastest consumed since Naxx ... which is crazy.
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  7. #7
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    I think only seeing part of the Blizz quote is a bit misleading. They talk about the stats they keep and they're player kills, fails, how much are they succeeding by, how close are they when they fail, etc. and they I'm sure have success targets. I'm also getting the impression that they are attributing subscriber loss to too much failure; mainly the quote about it being no fun to endlessly wipe. They want their player base to succeed, get the best gear and feel epic. They appear to give no weight to the argument "get better", they just blow that off as demonstrated in Bhasiok's quote. They also understand it's just a video game and the whole idea of "respect, earning it, etc" are just stupid in relation to video games. In fact, it's kind of fun watching the wanna be elites nerd rage; like a video game means something in the scope of life.

    In the end, Blizz is right, if you want a real challenge turn off the buff, if not don't complain.

  8. #8
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    I wasn't expecting this with LFR and fairly easy normal modes. I guess blizzard monitors progress and decides when to give a helping hand. I don't mind the 5% buff while we're slowly progressing through heroic modes but doesn't really feel needed.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    They also understand it's just a video game and the whole idea of "respect, earning it, etc" are just stupid in relation to video games. In fact, it's kind of fun watching the wanna be elites nerd rage; like a video game means something in the scope of life.
    This sentence is rife with condescension that is every bit as distasteful as that possessed by those you are speaking about here. Who are you to judge what any experience means to any individual aside from yourself? The tear-jerking example I can personally give you is I do in fact know of one particular player (friend's cousin) who's entire life is in fact these games. He's a burn victim and this is his one and only social outlet where he can feign normal social interactions with other human beings without feeling the massive weight of his situation.

    How large or small, how meaningful or meaningless this game and these experiences are to individuals is not something you or I have any right to judge or condemn. You take it lightly, other's take it very seriously ... neither of you are any more "right" than the other.
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  10. #10
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    30% damage reduction/increase would make it so the BR servers can get a DW kill outside of raid finder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  11. #11
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    It's not condensation (and I could really care less if I were being condescending to most of the mouth breathers on the official forums), it's a fact - it's a video game and in the scope of life using a video game to say people need to "earn things, or people aren't entitled, or people get respect" is not only silly but in a lot of ways sad - really, to some you get respect because you have really cool purples and show them off in SW and get pissed because others you believe are less worthy get these same color pixels? Please, that's so far removed from what earns respect that it's not even funny.

    Your example of one player for whom the game is a therapeutic substitute for in person social interaction is not equivalent to those in the forums who are "outraged" by the nerf because they "earned something" that others who they consider "bads" will also get. In one situation, the experience is personal, in the other people are raging because they feel others are not worthy and want Blizzard to take action based on that selfish principle.


    Perhaps it's a generational thing, those younger people who grew up on Nintendo and computer games take them very seriously which to my generation is silly. They talk about "skill, or earning something" in a video game, which is laughable. Good hand eye coordination, maybe, skill, no. It takes skill to hit a 90 mph fast ball, it's just takes repetition to beat a computer game; Mother Teresa deserves respect, the kid sitting in Org in 410 shines doesn't.

    And I'm sorry, there is objectivity in this, it's a video game no more, no less; tell a potential employer that you beat Madness pre-nerf but the other applicant needed a 10% nerf to beat it, see how relevant that information is.

  12. #12
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    Bleh, as much as I always hate nerfs and we are most likely going to have to kill Madness HC post 5%, I can see where Blizzard is coming from with these. Also, they have given us 2 weeks in advance to prepare for these mentally and organize our raiding accordingly.

    Reassuring thought is, I can finally go back to going out for a beer more than twice per week after that .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valaras View Post
    Bleh, as much as I always hate nerfs and we are most likely going to have to kill Madness HC post 5%, I can see where Blizzard is coming from with these. Also, they have given us 2 weeks in advance to prepare for these mentally and organize our raiding accordingly.

    Reassuring thought is, I can finally go back to going out for a beer more than twice per week after that .
    Heh...honestly, Dragon Soul hasn't been worth skipping going out for beer for. Which, I suppose, is why my guild only just killed H-Blackhorn last night instead of weeks ago.

    The nerfs don't really matter to me, though I do wonder if they're over-reacting to "people not progressing". We didn't progress not because we couldn't kill the boss, we didn't because we had 2 weeks of raiding taken up by various vacations, couldn't start until late when we got back, didn't really care enough to go too late and tons of other reasons/excuses. None of which are "this boss is too hard!"

    People will work harder at engaging content, and Dragon Soul hasn't been that (at least for a lot of people). Nerfing already-not-engaging content may mean people will progress further, but it won't really make that content better...just over more quickly.

  14. #14
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    Our lack of progress has also been more about "we don't have enough healers", "we don't have enough players", "a tank quit the game", "let's just do morchok and then clear and have nothing to do the rest of the week, the raid on monday isn't going to happen anyway".

  15. #15
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    Similar story here Fetzie. We'd have 30+ for our raids easily before christmas, took a 2 week break, and we've had a few disappear without a word, one or two extended their holidays, essentially we dropped to having only 3 MS healers and neither of our usual tanks for a week or two, didn't do any progression content until last week. We've had to use alts/offspecs to fill tank/healer roles, but still managed to get heroic hagara last night, which is a nice boost for morale.

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    I think the nerfs are good, just maybe a little on the early side. As stated above, the Normal Modes just kinda got breezed through, and then people had holidays, making progression a bit tricky for msot guilds. So nerfing content while players are in the process of natural progression doesn't really make sense. If this nerf only effected normal mode, that would make perfect sense. (yes there are still guilds stumbling through normals) It's really past time those were cleared. And I'm sure those of us who are doing heroic progression wouldn't mind an easier farm for however many remaining normal bosses we have. Nerfing the heroics though? If the average guild is able to down 1 new boss a week (subtacting a few for the first week, cause i think the majority of committed raiders did at least 4/8 in week 1 on normal, but then adding 3 for holidays) then the "average" raid group is just starting to reach heroic modes. So unless Blizzard has some numbers that contradict my hypothesizing, these nerfs are a tad on the early side, even with them being at the end of January. We'll have to see how it turns out though i guess.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    Our lack of progress has also been more about "we don't have enough healers", "we don't have enough players", "a tank quit the game", "let's just do morchok and then clear and have nothing to do the rest of the week, the raid on monday isn't going to happen anyway".
    Damn, sounds like my guild. January full with birthdays, people just wanting to clear and go do other things, our MT away for a few months on business so we had to find a replacement so I could back to healing, people getting stuck at work and not making raid, etc.

    And, people seem to overlook the fact that you can turn off the nerf, so if you want to clear heroic or normal at the original difficulty, turn off radiance.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    And, people seem to overlook the fact that you can turn off the nerf, so if you want to clear heroic or normal at the original difficulty, turn off radiance.
    Of course people are overlooking it...Icewell radiance taught us that as much as people will bitch about it, they won't turn it off.

  19. #19
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    Icewell radiance wasn't the +damage/healing/absorbs buff, it was the -20% dodge debuff. Hellscream's Warsong and Wrynn's buff were the player power buffs. Just nitpicking

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion View Post
    Of course people are overlooking it...Icewell radiance taught us that as much as people will bitch about it, they won't turn it off.
    On the Official Forums, which are just a great side show these days, the "elite" argument is that turning it off is not something anyone would do, so Blizz needs to save them from themselves or maybe give a separate achievement for completing content with it turned off. It really is all about "look at me, I'm better than you", not about beating a challenge. If it were about beating a challenge, people would turn it off and know that they beat the game on hard mode. As the man said: "No act is so private as to not seek applause."

    I'm wondering what we will do in our guild, if we ever get a stable 10 man group. I know for normal which is on farm, there's no way we're turning it off, it will take a 2.5 hour blast through down about 1/2 hour or so and no one is going to complain about that. When we start heroics I assume we'll do at least H Morchok next week, then it will be decision time. Thinking about it, we wont' turn it off.

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