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Thread: 2% wipes on madness, driving me crazy, what's going on

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by outbackjack View Post
    Pretty sure the swirly stuff on the floor is just a slowing debuff for the adds, the haste buff is always up when Nozdormu is active. You should be good standing wherever you like.
    Thanks, that's what I get for believing what I heard in lfr - DOH.

  2. #22
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    You shouldn't need to be spamming FoL the entire final phase. I do my standard HS-HR-HR-LoD rotation, switch to single target while terrors are being tanked. Of course, we don't get a second terror spawn (the boss dies as the second fragments finish casting their first lot of Shrapnel), so we don't have to handle that.
    Last edited by Fetzie; 01-05-2012 at 03:13 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
    You shouldn't need to be spamming FoL the entire final phase.
    From your mouth to God's ears. We'll see what happens tonight.

    Thinking about it we were off by about 7 million on our best attempt - we have almost all of the dps at about 42 to 45k with a Shadow Priest at 31 - if he were up another 10k dps, we'd have been damn close about 1 mill off. We need to push him a bit.

  4. #24
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    take the DPS numbers with a grain of salt, they are often inflated or deflated depending on what part of the fight you're on, and those DPS numbers may not be your burn phase DPS numbers.

    I'd say the 11% and hold, 2nd wave -> burn, is your best option.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  5. #25
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    Thanks all - we did it second try tonight. And you all were right about hold at 11% then burn. As usual I was completely clueless when he died, I was so focused on healing that all of a sudden the achiev pops up.


    .

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryceE View Post
    BTW, we're going green, red, yellow, blue for platform order. And I don't know about 1 tanking it. I mean on some platforms we have to hold dps on the arm because if we don't we end up pushing it and getting blistering tentacles AND corrupted bloods and if that happens as we'd found out we die. So wouldn't 1 tanking with another dps kinda make that even more difficult?
    The extra dps isn't for the arm tentacle, it's for the adds. More dps on adds equals less damage to heal in general. Also, getting the mutated corruption down before the second impale makes the fight simpler.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Yes it would. but the fight is more about timing your burn phases than it is about raw numbers. you don't DPS the Arm/Wing tentacles below 75% before you sort out the Mutated corruption/bolt on that platform, and likewise you don't Drop Deathwing below 10% before you have sorted out the shit on his platform. YOu jump over kill him, Kill his adds, repeat until he hits 10-11% health when you stop DPS on him, clear one more round of adds and as soon as the adds are all down you go for the kill and ignore the next set of adds. with your DPS you should only have to have two rounds of adds on the last platform.
    Why shouldn't you dps the arm below 75% prior to handling the corruption? I don't think my raid quite gets him to 75% before the corruption comes out, but I was curious anyhow.

    Thank you.

  8. #28
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    The first set of blistering tentacles spawns at 70%. If you spawn them too early, either a tank will die to impale, or the raid will die to a combination of thump, elementium bolt and fire AoE.

  9. #29
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    Hey all,

    Sorry to piggyback on somebody else's thread but we're basically in the same boat.

    We keep having problems and wiping pretty close to a kill. The first problem is typically our 1 Tank getting flattened by 2 Elementium Terrors being tanked inside the Bubble. We literally vaporize one of them and immediately transition to the next. In our close calls - if we would have been able to keep the tank up (he takes unbelieveable damage) - we could have controlled the burn easily. We use 2 Holy Priests - using CDs on the tank - and it still doesn't keep him up. Our healers are pretty excellent too (We use Holy, Holy/Disc and Druid) - druid is about 14-17k (depending on Tranq use) and priests do 17-20k HPS.

    The second problem with that is - even with 6 DPS (1 tanking) we are BARELY making the final Tentacle cut (usually within a few seconds of Cataclysm being cast) and everyone is doing over 40k DPS. We kill tentacles before second impales - we blow up bolts, we destroy bloods, etc - but that FINAL platform has been taking Bloodlust to complete on time. Our highest DPS is usually in the 50-54k range - lowest can be 40k to 43k with everyone else inbetween and sometimes the second DPS is also trading in the 50-54k range. I know our DPS is doing well because we don't ever see a second Impale, so why are we having so much trouble burning down the Blue platform? Is the haste buff killing our DPS that much?

    I identified one thing in this thread we will change - we normally switch to super-speed Bolts, which we will not do anymore - and it makes COMPLETE sense to just keep killing the Mutated since the AoE pulse is nothing compared to a 100k hit.

    So my big concerns are:
    Any clues why we can't burn Blue (final) Platform without lust even with good DPS? Or maybe DPS aren't so good?

    And that's WITH 6 DPS!

    Any way to keep the tank alive for 2 waves of Terrors? It's so crazy - I know if we can keep him alive we'd have a kill. Better CD management?

    If I go back to tank (I'm the best geared tank, but Warrior blows for taking Impales sadly compared to a Paladin) - which would completely solve our Terror problem (Shield Fortress = amazing for bolt also) - are we going to be even FARTHER away from being able to kill Blue platform?

    We tried 7 DPS, and while we absolutely murdered single target DPS - everyone's overall DPS dropped since Spellweave gets divided more. I went from doing 54k DPS as Arms to 45k as Arms going from 6>7k DPS - but we had other issues so went back to 6 DPS instead.

    Thanks all,

  10. #30
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    If you're using a paladin to tank, can't he just bubble off the debuff the elementium terrors do?
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  11. #31
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    Well I think that is possible - I was worried about a DPS (me, typically - because I am melee and will be their #1 target) getting killed even with Shield Wall up (a pathetic CD really compared to the damage they do) in the event he's not fast enough.

    I don't want to call Bubble-taunting a gimmick but we were trying to execute it without doing something over the top like that - since it would not be available for the second wave of adds before 11% burn. (Or do Paladins have 2 bubbles that will remove it? I am not 100% up to date on Paladin mechanics) - but I realize that it may be a neccesary thing to execute in order to 1 Tank it - however I would truthfully like to use 2 tanks.

    I think the largest challenge for us is: Why aren't we burning down the final Tentacle fast enough and - why can someone on Page 1 with DPS equal to (or lower) burn the blue platform and we cannot? I'd love to 2 Tank it - because that is so much less stress for everyone (the first 3.5 platforms are a snooze for us - up until Bolt Impact on 4 and the burn thereafter) - it just boggles my mind that we are cutting it so close on Platform4 with 6 and I'm seeing people do it with 5 with less DPS.

  12. #32
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    Your problem is not DPS, it's efficient DPS. I can link the log to our last kill but our DPS is basically below yours: we have 2 tanks at 23k and 28k; 3 healers who add about 10k dps; and our 5 DPS are 48k, 47k, 46k, 35k and 35k. Our heals are 2 shammies and a pally (me) and we do 19k, 17k and 12k hps.

    So we are by no means uber raiders, but we get things down in our own time.

    In the log, ignore the first wipe we had someone die to the "leap to your death" glitch between platforms.

    Couple things we found - we do Green, Red, Yellow, Blue. Yellow and Blue platforms our warrior tank gets nailed by Impales but I put a Hand of Sac on him and Cast Divine Light and top him up and it's all good. You have a Disc priest Bubble and Pain Suppression on Yellow should be good and on Blue same thing or Bubble and Last Stand, Shield Wall, whatever.

    We only have one Bolt actually hit the ground and that's on Blue Platform our RL call out for our cooldowns for you Power Word Barrier, the Druid can do whatever it is Druid's do and the Holy Priest pops Sanctuary; raid members use personal cooldowns, pots, lock cookies, etc.

    We found on Blue platform if we killed Bloods first, then pushed him to the Blisterings we did better. Bloods need to die fast, real fast so you have time on the Blisterings, then the Wing, then the Blisterings then the Wings.

    Phase 2 is where your healers need to step up, people need to use their green buttons on Shrapnel and you need to time the burn as mentioned earlier in the thread. Burn boss, kill adds, burn boss to 11% and stop burn adds, kill boss. You may be taking him below 11% and stacking the AoE damage on top of the add damage. We use two tanks so the Elementiums are more manageable; burn one then taunt off.

    The fight, while a dps race at times, is really about being efficient in killing things. You can do 50k dps but if someone is on the Wing and should be burning Bloods, that DPS is useless; you see what I mean, I'm not implying you're doing that, but people need to be coordinated; be on top of target switching.

    You have the dps and heals to do it, it's a matter of dancing the dance cleanly.

    Believe me we don't beat the enrage by a whole lot sometimes, but it gets done.



    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...?s=1139&e=2021
    Last edited by Theotherone; 01-27-2012 at 10:26 AM.

  13. #33
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    1 tanking vs. 2 tanking requires a fairly different strategy though.

    You guys are getting to the head, that's fine, I'd say keep doing what you're doing for Phase 1.

    For P2 the paladin bubble, they have both their main bubble and they BoP that can remove it too (I THINK, someone correct me if I'm wrong about this). I don't know if forbearance would be up to use both.

    You also don't have to bubble "taunt" but taunt helps. How the mechanic works is that the boss waits for its swing timer to see if something is immune and then turns, so just because they hit bubble, doesn't mean the boss will immediately turn and kill a melee. have them make a macro like this:

    Code:
    #showtooltip Hand of Protection
    /cast Hand of Protection
    /cancelaura Hand of Protection
    And have one set up for his main bubble also. If he just spams that button, it will remove the buff but also drop BoP immediately so it won't ever attack anyone, if you want to macro in taunt to that as well you could I guess.

    How low are you getting the boss when the first wave of adds die? If your DPS is that good, you may be able to just zerg him down and ignore the second wave of adds, if the second wave spawns, just tank them as long as possible and blow all your cooldowns while the DPS finishes the boss.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  14. #34
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    The two Elementium Terrors need to be dying within a minute or you won't have enough time to do damage to deathwing before the next Fragments spawn. So you can only use one immunity per Terror spawn.

  15. #35
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    Yeah we've worked out some effeciency issues the first and beggining of second weeks on him - and I think making it simple but going Mutated > Final Bolt (We always kill Tentacles before second Impale and still kill all Bolts before they hit the ground) will help a lot in that department as it prevents a target swap and the only platform we HAD been getting a second Impale on was the Fourth because we switch to Bolt and move early to avoid damage.

    We have a Fire Mage, Demo Lock and Arms Warrior (me) with a Hunter Multi-shotting - the Bloods literally disappear in a few seconds. We always burn Blisterings first - but we do not hold back on the Tentacles and just push phases and do Blisterings > Bloods if they spawn on top (a non-issue) - on Platforms 1-3 he casts Cataclysm when the Tentacles is around 40-50% life already - but the last one seems to be lagging way behind the previous which is leading to our issues.

    So I did find the 1 thing we will do differently, which will help the healing/DPS situation. We have got to Phase2 doing LFR order and Green>Red>Yellow>Blue - so we have the order down.

    We basically need to: Avoid using lust on Platform 4 (we're 20-30 seconds ahead of every other platform) - and/or do the same thing and use 2 tanks to deal with Terrors at the end.



    edit:

    Didn't see 2 new replies, sorry:

    I will work with our Paladin for that macro - I think he's not used to using one yet but that looks good and we'll try it.

    We, without lust, got him below 15% before the first wave of adds spawn (and we have NOT had lust on the final platform) but the second wave of Elementiums kill the tank usually because we seem to blow CDs on the first wave (could be nerves) - and the Terrors do die really fast. The Fragments are dead within 15 seconds of spawning - they have basically no life and only get 1 wave of Shrapnel off before being dead.

    We are typically wiping at 2-4% - with no lust.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post

    You guys are getting to the head, that's fine, I'd say keep doing what you're doing for Phase 1.
    Yeah, but they're blowing Hero to get to the Head - with their dps they shouldn't need to; if they can get past first adds on Head and still have Hero left that might make the difference.

    I have haven't tried BoP our tanks to get the debuff off, so I can't say if it will work - bubble should, Hand of Protection should, but I'm not sure. Kind of sounds like the boss is getting below 11% and they're getting slammed by the AoE.

  17. #37
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    BoP = Hand of Protection, it used to be called Blessing of Protection, sorry, old habits die hard.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    BoP = Hand of Protection, it used to be called Blessing of Protection, sorry, old habits die hard.
    Yeah, I still say "I'll BoP you" too - although nothing was better than DI'ing someone lol -"wft I can't move...."; or "fail Pally didn't DI a healer now we have to run back...."

  19. #39
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    Oh also, if you're right about the boss getting below 11%, then their DPS needs to either stop before the next wave of adds spawns or push harder and ignore adds, you should never be fighting adds while the boss is below 10% health.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuponuts View Post

    We, without lust, got him below 15% before the first wave of adds spawn (and we have NOT had lust on the final platform) but the second wave of Elementiums kill the tank usually because we seem to blow CDs on the first wave (could be nerves) - and the Terrors do die really fast. The Fragments are dead within 15 seconds of spawning - they have basically no life and only get 1 wave of Shrapnel off before being dead.
    If you have him to 15% before first set of adds spawn - I'd reccomend ignoring the second set of adds - let you tank take one for the team (hold the elemeniums as long as he can) and promise you'll rez him before loot gets distributed , and just burn the boss after you kill the first set of adds. You're so close to that 10% break point, that it does not makes sense to me to burn him 4% and switch targets to the second set of adds.

    I'll let Fetzie and Agg comment, since they're more advanced than I am at this.

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