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Thread: 2% wipes on madness, driving me crazy, what's going on

  1. #1
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    2% wipes on madness, driving me crazy, what's going on

    We're getting 2-3% wipes nearly every pull this week we even went in an extra night (tonight) because we were going to try ignoring 2nd add wave and bursting him down. We did better, but only by like 2-3% from killing every add that was up.

    Would getting hit/exp cap really help for this fight or is it not my dps as a tank that's killing us? I'm at a lost right now and it's really starting to get frustrating.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w2wlezj50m8rqok6/
    Galook - Dwarf Paladin - US Nazgrel

  2. #2
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    Have you tried doing what DPS you can to deathwing, first add wave spawns, kill that, then control burn to 11% and stop, kill second add wave, then hit lust and burn deathwing from 11%? Corrupted Blood increases damage based on what % he's at and it increases at 15%, 10% and 5%, so if your dps isn't enough to just do 1 add wave, then you want to hold dps at 11% and do a second add wave.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  3. #3
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    We had the exact same problem. Got him down thanks to Bigbad, Fetzie et al's advice of;

    Quote Originally Posted by boogi View Post
    2 tanks, 3 healers. Get to phase two, kill fragments, zerg ONE terror so tanks can taunt when debuff has dropped, kill second. Stop dps before Deathwing goes below 10%, repeat previous sentence, blow hero and kill Deathwing ignoring everything else.

  4. #4
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    Yea, both tanks are doing everything they can to dps DW in between add phases.
    Galook - Dwarf Paladin - US Nazgrel

  5. #5
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    Are you two-tanking this fight? If so, you should consider one-tanking it instead for the extra dps. With the extra dps, you can probably get the mutated corruption down before the second impale, making the second tank useless. We only get a second impale on the last platform because we dont' have the haste buff and have to have the raid run toward the head of the platform to avoid the damage from the bolt. For the bolt and second impale, the tank can use a big CD, coupled with an external CD from one of your healers. Guardian Spirit works great here if you have a holy priest.

  6. #6
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    BTW, we're going green, red, yellow, blue for platform order. And I don't know about 1 tanking it. I mean on some platforms we have to hold dps on the arm because if we don't we end up pushing it and getting blistering tentacles AND corrupted bloods and if that happens as we'd found out we die. So wouldn't 1 tanking with another dps kinda make that even more difficult?
    Galook - Dwarf Paladin - US Nazgrel

  7. #7
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    Judging from your logs, it's not your raid's DPS (you tanks included). The HPS looks ok too. You could certainly try what the above users have suggested, and it should help you out if your healers are having trouble keeping the raid and tanks up, but in my raid we don't really find that necessary.

    Are you coordinating the use of raid cooldowns during this phase? Are your raiders using Dream to help with the healing requirements? Are your tanks using their cooldowns correctly for the Elementium Terrors?

    Another thing you might try is having one tank pick up both Elementium Terrors; the other tank picks both up when the first one hits 4 stacks of Tetanus. This might make it easier for your healers.

    Also, try saving BL for when Deathwing is below 10% health, preferably after second set of Elementium Terrors have spawned. This should also help your healers.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryceE View Post
    BTW, we're going green, red, yellow, blue for platform order. And I don't know about 1 tanking it. I mean on some platforms we have to hold dps on the arm because if we don't we end up pushing it and getting blistering tentacles AND corrupted bloods and if that happens as we'd found out we die. So wouldn't 1 tanking with another dps kinda make that even more difficult?
    Yes it would. but the fight is more about timing your burn phases than it is about raw numbers. you don't DPS the Arm/Wing tentacles below 75% before you sort out the Mutated corruption/bolt on that platform, and likewise you don't Drop Deathwing below 10% before you have sorted out the shit on his platform. YOu jump over kill him, Kill his adds, repeat until he hits 10-11% health when you stop DPS on him, clear one more round of adds and as soon as the adds are all down you go for the kill and ignore the next set of adds. with your DPS you should only have to have two rounds of adds on the last platform.

  9. #9
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    To answer your original question: expertise is almost useless on this fight. Half the creatures, including 'chin of deathwing' can't dodge or parry. If your melee dps have the option, they can up their overall DPS a bit by dropping some expertise, it'll only reduce their damage on the elementium bolt, terrors and the regen bloods. But anyway, as stated in the other responses it's more down to how you handle the execution phase. If you have the DPS, then switching fast to the adds and doing the 11% pause are the key things.

    Looking at the deaths overview in the log, you seem to have a number of attempts where the first deaths are to shrapnel. I can't tell if that's on attempts where you've decided to leave them up and go all out on deathwing and that dream is going on cooldown, or whether people are just failing to dream when shrapnel has <5s on it's duration. If it helps, here is a power aura which will pop up a big skull and countdown with <5s remaining.

    Code:
    Version:4.23; InvertAuraBelow:4.5; b:0.9373; g:0.9216; icon:ability_deathwing_shrapnel; buffname:Shrapnel; begin:1; bufftype:2; texture:10; alpha:1; sound:18; size:0.95; y:273; texmode:2; timer.HideLeadingZeros:true; timer.h:6.23; timer.Texture:Monofonto; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:CENTER; timer.y:-60; timer.Transparent:true; timer.UseOwnColor:true

  10. #10
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    Every attempt I believe we were burning him after the first terror was dead and ignoring everything else.

    The very first attempt we would of had him if 2 of our dps hadn't kept on the terror and burned DW.
    Galook - Dwarf Paladin - US Nazgrel

  11. #11
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    Well I'd describe that as the brute force approach. It can certainly work. But the controlled approach goes like this:

    Reach phase 2, start DPS on chin of Deathwing.
    Tentacles spawn, switch to them immediatly (while leaving as many dots on deathwing as possible to proc kalecgos damage)
    Don't die to shrapnel, use your dream button at the right time.
    Terrors spawn, tank them in the golden bubble, ramp cooldowns up as tetanus stack increases, kill 1 then the other.
    Go back and push Deathwing to 11% and not lower, stop dps if necessary and wait for next add spawns
    Kill second round of tentacles & terrors.
    Lust/Hero + kill deathwing. Ramp up raid defensive/healing cooldowns.

  12. #12
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    I'll let my group know about that method. They're thinking they're going to get gear this week from the first 7 and then we should be able to do this strat we've been doing. Does this sound like we'd be able to since we're getting him to 2-3% already before the gear?
    Galook - Dwarf Paladin - US Nazgrel

  13. #13
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    maybe, but I mean... why? It's not really that difficult to just hold DPS and kill 2 waves then hit lust and burn, it's much more controlled and safer if your raw DPS is just really close to being able to brute force it with your current strategy. Why not just wait 1 more minute and confirm the kill rather than waiting 10 minutes to try and bash your heads against it again?

    Here's a good benchmark, IMO: If you can get the head below 15% before the first adds spawn, then you probably have enough DPS to do a 1 add wave brute force approach, but you have to save all cooldowns for that final push. I'd even say that a safer bet is to be able to do that and kill all adds, not leaving 1 terror up, it's just far more stable without any adds up.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  14. #14
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    I just thought I should note there that Spellweaving (from Kalecgos) does not deal damage to the target it procs on.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryceE View Post
    I'll let my group know about that method. They're thinking they're going to get gear this week from the first 7 and then we should be able to do this strat we've been doing. Does this sound like we'd be able to since we're getting him to 2-3% already before the gear?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=1921&e=2815 - Our First kill effective raid DPS of 253229.5 after adjusting for arm/wing tentacle damage. Compared yo your first attempt we're 15k behind your raid who has an effective raid DPS of 267561. Your problem isn't a Gear issue. It isn't a DPS issue, It's a Strategy issue. Unless you're particularily undergeared or you manage to complete quite a few 4 set bonuses with drops this week, another weak of gear won't have that much of an impact on your raid DPS.

  16. #16
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    This all is very helpful. With the Holidays over we took our first real shots at Madness last night, after following the advice on platform choice - we were doing Green, Blue, Yellow, Red then went Green, Red, Yellow, Blue (much easier) we finally got him to about 7 million before corruption got the best of us, we were kind of winging it into phase 2 to see it. Tonight we're going to try the controlled burn to 11%, then go all out after second set of adds is down. I wanted to post logs for some help, but for some reason the World of Logs client wont' load on my computer, I get a Java script internal version of some such thing not supported error.

    I'm healing on my pally and I can say by the last phase, I'm doing everything I can think of to get some mana; we're using 2 Shammy's and me a Pally - Divine Plea and Mana tide are going off every cooldown. I was thinking of switching in my Disc Priest for the little extra dps from smite healing; but really want to complete the instance on the pally.

  17. #17
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    Have you tried resetting the java cache as well as updating Java to the newest version? There are instructions on how to do this on the WoL website.

    As for paladin mana issues:

    Try hitting stuff with melee swings as much as you can. With SoI you have ~50% chance to regen 4% base mana on melee swing, and you are swinging every 2 seconds. I usually end the two first platforms with over 90% mana and land for the final phase with DP running putting me above 70% (I do about 19-20k hps over the fight).

  18. #18
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    Thanks Fetzie, I'll try resetting the cache.

    I hit when I can, I'm usually trying to stand in the swirls for the haste buff when the corruption is up so I can keep the tanks up, then move in close to the claw and melee hit it while I heal. I'll try to melee swing more, see if that helps tonight. I'm doing about 18k hps for the fight on average. The last phase seems to be the issue, then it seems I'm spamming FoL to keep people up, but that could be because we overwhelmed ourselves with corruption by not doing an orderly burn.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    Thanks Fetzie, I'll try resetting the cache.

    I hit when I can, I'm usually trying to stand in the swirls for the haste buff when the corruption is up so I can keep the tanks up, then move in close to the claw and melee hit it while I heal.
    Pretty sure the swirly stuff on the floor is just a slowing debuff for the adds, the haste buff is always up when Nozdormu is active. You should be good standing wherever you like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Sounds like the guy who ran in front of the train had an even worse week than you guys did.

  20. #20
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    outbackjack is correct.

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