What should our dps be pulling

[Tengenstein]

So my question is based on everyone's gear are they underperforming across the board, which I think they are, or are we undergeared? Should my dps be doing better?

Thanks for all the help so far.

Quin struck the nail on head.

The general rule of thumb is that Tier X is tuned for the Ilvl dropped in Tier X-1, so if Firelands drops 378 then Dragonsoul will be tuned to be doable in 378 gear. Assuming its properly played, specced, gemmed and enchanted, there's quite a few missing enchants, questionable spec choices. The lock in particular has failed to stay abrest of the 4.3 changes to his single target rotation

[klausi]

This is false. The largest dps gain for blood lust is at the start of the fight. Every cooldown is up. At any point later in the fight more then likely 1 or more will be down. While blood lust in execution range is nice unless you are stacking full execution classes (or at least a majority) you will still see a smalller gain.

What's "nice" exactly? If you pop lust at the start of the fight you'll have less pot uptime during it (due to how prepotting works). What's about your shadow priests? If they don't have an orb just yet they'll have a hard time during the start of a fight. What about your hunters? If you pop lust right away they'll have a hard time popping Rapid Fire twice during a six minutes fight.

Firemages deal 12% more damage versus targets below 35%, Afflocks deal 12% more damage versus targets below 25% - lot's of other classes got similar talents/abilities to deal a large amount of extra damage during the "execution" phase and a bunch benefits from haste. If you got a two minutes cooldown and a three minutes coodown you can blow them at 0/0, 2/3 and 4/- during a six minutes fight or line them up to deal more damage, 0/0, 2/-, 5/5 during lust and your second potion. There's only one thing you can't control: trinket proccs. They'll likely be up at the start of a fight and due to different internal cooldowns and various procc chances and ppm you'll have a hard time having all of them up at the same time later on.

Stating that with ilvl 380 their dps should be doing 30k dps on ultraxion is hard, imho. We killed him in full heroic firelands gear, two caster legendary and some lfr + 397 pieces (avg ilvl ~ 395) from the first id with an average dps of ~33.000 dps on our heroic kill. Yes that value is ~10% above your estimated value but depending on the class and rng (hello fading light) some players/classes will have a very hard time hitting your numbers even on normal mode, "playing perfectly" isn't a good benchmark. You're raiding 10m as well, don't underestimate other influences like raidbuffs. 6% versus 10% spelldamage is a 400 spelldamage difference easily. What happens if you don't have replenishment or some major melee buffs are missing?

Quinafoi gave a good hint, moving to two healers can be very useful. Even if your third healers plays subpar and only adds 15k dps, this decreases the burden on your 5 regular dps by 3k each!

@ your logs:
Sadly your hunter just suck, simply as that. Serpent sting had 50% uptime on most of the longer fights and he must be focus capped all of the time. Tell him to at least hit his chimera shot when it's ready, 5:26 fight length and 14 shots - 6:05 and 12 shots - 5:39 and 7 shots - .. the list goes on. And have him use a pet that brings something benefical to the raid like 4% more physical damage taken.. and playing Marksman without melee haste? If he'd play survival instead all your other melees (feral + fury + rogue + both tanks) should see a HUGE bump in their dps (increased energy regeneration, more autoattacks -> rage, more proccs, more dotticks and so on) and imho it's rather easy to play.

[ferdy30]

Thanks to everyone for the input.

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[Kahmal]

Maybe I'm sadistic, but I love the Ultraxion fight simply because one DPS not pulling his weight can brings the entire group down and he/she can finally realize that they have a problem. Every one at this point should have about full 378+ gear so they should all be pulling at least 25k. If anyone is below that then you'll need one or more people that can carry their slack by pulling 30k+.

Also even your Warrior tank should be pulling around 15k like the Paladin tank is. I"m pretty sure Devestate should be number one on damage. Revenge sucks, spec out of it and dont use it. Sure it hits harder...when it crits, tanks have a slow crit chance, Devestate has a 15% chance to crit. Also if he's worried about stealing aggro on tank swaps, he can always switch to Battle Stance and continue DPSing.

Edit: good heavens...I haven't played Fury all expansion...but cute...is the only way I can describe your Fury Warrior. I think he just presses buttons on a whim because he feels like it. Why does he have more Cleaves then Heroic Strikes? And what the hell is he cleaving in the first place!? Its a Patchwerk fight only one boss is to be burned down Heroic Strike is stronger then Cleave single target, he's also using Whirlwind when there is only one target that needs to be hit, Warriors haven't done that since WoTLK.

Best thing you can do bro is ban your raiders to sites like this one, and ElitistJerks so they learn how to play their class, even the official WoW forums will give them enough info.

[Theotherone]

www.noxxic.com is a pretty good sight for general info on gearing, gemming, rotation etc. I don't always agree with their optimum talents specs, but it's more personal differences.

Just knowing their rotation/priorities will make a big difference.

[Tengenstein]

I find noxxic.com to be quite a shallow resource, it's protection warrior section in particular has a couple of things that make me just want to beat the author round the head with a wet tuna.



EDIT: So I suppose in that small way the article has inspired me to increase my DPS.

[Theotherone]

Yeah it has some issues, but as I said it's "general" information. I have not really had issues with their rotation suggestions in general.

I like sushi, can I have the tuna when you're done?

[Tengenstein]

Yes you may.

the OP may want to note that it's Demo lock section is out of date. If the tuna was that out of date, i wouldn't eat that sushi.

[Gregasaurous]

In 380 gear, the "average" player should be doing about 20-25k, dependent on class and spec and assuming they have their stats properly adjusted. I would first of all, highly suggest that you ask your raid to take some initiative, and go and spend half an hour just researching their class. Have them check a few different sites, not all of them are trustworthy or up to date, but they should be able to glean some useful information they didn't already know. Now, I really don't know much about most DPS classes, but just taking a quick look, I can tell that a few of your DPS are just kind of stumbling in the dark. I would say that you are more than capable of downing this content though in your current gear though.

Mage: Actually looks like he knows what he's doing for the most part, reforges look consistent (though slightly overly complicated) though his 2 orange gems go against his reforge strategy?

Cat Druid: Looks on top of things as well, though is falling behind on enchants and need to reforge wrists I believe.

Hunter: From the looks of things is doing well, though (maybe just of personal preference) my guilds MM hunter likes stacking mastery instead of haste for several reasons with some decent theory crafting to back it up. So have him do a checkup, I don't know what actually does better DPS.

Warlock: I have absolutely no idea what he's trying to accomplish with his geming and reforges. It does not look consistent in any way.

Warrior: I believe that for no reason whatsoever should he reforge to mastery. He gets better DPS from stacking Hit and "Rage Dumping" than he does from getting a slightly heftier RB. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure this is the case.
For when he's tanking, as Off-tank it's tricky to maintain DPS as a warrior due to lack of rage upkeep from blocking attack from the boss, so he may only be able to do 8-10k. If he's MT, he should be pushing at least 13k. Good news is CTC is not an issue because he gets to have a 100% SB up-time due to Thrall's buff, so SS should also be laying hefty hits as well.
His spec though is horrendous. Blood Craze is not a talent worth the dust on my shoes, it should not appear in his Fury or Prot spec. He should Have skirmisher for Fury, warriors have mobility, take advantage of it.
Gag Order is only good for making up for poor raid communication. He certainly doesn't need it. He should move BC to DW, and Gag Order to Incite. And he should really consider dripping Thunderstruck or Imp Rev, and completing Shield Spec and Incite.
(if you couldn't tell form that lengthy response, my main that I raid on is a Prot/Fury War)

[ferdy30]

Thanks for the flood of help. Yea the time that we had these attempts I got a little rude in vent and put them on notice that if they don't start improving drastically I will be replacing.

It is kind of fun on the zon ozz fight I had the same "discussion" with my healers and they picked it up...just hope the dps does the same...if not there may be a pally tank lfg.

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[leethaxor]

http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/15492-...d_player_good/

This could help