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Thread: I'm finding this DK of mine to make less and less sense....

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    I'm finding this DK of mine to make less and less sense....

    Ok, so right now I'm trying to gear up my Blood DK after hitting 85 on Wednesday. The gear needs a lot of work, I'm aware of that and I'm pretty sure I know what I need. I am also in dire need of enchants, but i just spent a bunch of money securing some final chunks of TG for my weapon and belt, so work in progress there as well. Stat priorities are easy as well. What has me banging my head on the wall is spec, rotation and glyphs.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ngigs/advanced

    I know my current spec is a nightmare. I'm also aware that HoD, AbM, and CS aren't exactly "must have talents" either but at the time nothing else looked all that appealing. Now, the thing that really has me confused the most is Blood Tap. From what I've seen you're supposed to have the talents that go with it. I don't quite understand why though. To me it appears to be a situational ability. Even with the glyph I don't get how it's going to help me out in the long haul. Also from what i've read, Blood Boil isn't mentioned for AOE rotation anywhere. Currently i use it a lot if i have more than 3 targets. (Hence the reason I also have it spec'ed)

    Now for glyphs, there's only one that really has me confused. I've seen 2 different sites say that i should have Glyph of Death Coil. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this ability isn't exactly in my normal rotation. I use it if a target moves out of range, or if I need to make a caster mad at me and don't have Death Grip available. Why glyph it over RS, DS or HS? Three abilities that get used VERY often.

    Also, real quick, is the gem priority really any different from that of what I'm used to on my war? I understand that having more health on a DK can be helpful due to it also increasing heals of DS, which increases blood shield, but id doesn't out-way the value of mastery and parry? Also how helpful is it to have expertise to help DS's happen on the first try?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregasaurous View Post
    Ok, so right now I'm trying to gear up my Blood DK after hitting 85 on Wednesday. The gear needs a lot of work, I'm aware of that and I'm pretty sure I know what I need. I am also in dire need of enchants, but i just spent a bunch of money securing some final chunks of TG for my weapon and belt, so work in progress there as well. Stat priorities are easy as well. What has me banging my head on the wall is spec, rotation and glyphs.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ngigs/advanced

    I know my current spec is a nightmare. I'm also aware that HoD, AbM, and CS aren't exactly "must have talents" either but at the time nothing else looked all that appealing. Now, the thing that really has me confused the most is Blood Tap. From what I've seen you're supposed to have the talents that go with it. I don't quite understand why though. To me it appears to be a situational ability. Even with the glyph I don't get how it's going to help me out in the long haul. Also from what i've read, Blood Boil isn't mentioned for AOE rotation anywhere. Currently i use it a lot if i have more than 3 targets. (Hence the reason I also have it spec'ed)
    I can't look at your spec from where I am right now, but will when I can. Blood Tap.... is super useful as it's a free rune. If you've ever hit a rune blackout, you know how nice it is to be able to pop blood tap and get a rune back that is ready to roll. It allows you to "patch" a rune synch issue that can develop. Usual sort of thing is, you have an unholy rune ready for deathstrike and you really need it, but the next rune won't refresh for another 4 seconds. Easy fix. Pop blood tap, hit your ability on demand. Also great for bone shield being refreshed and DnD nowadays.

    The main thing with it though is it gives you back a primary resource when you need it.

    Blood boil is not your best AoE ability. It's a great snap aggro device for when you're having to collect a lot of loose trash, but doesn't hit all that hard. Myself, even if I have more than 3 targets, I resort to heartstrike. Blood boil is my tool for grabbing mobs like the small scorpions in Firelands. When they scatter, I use it to bring them back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregasaurous View Post
    Now for glyphs, there's only one that really has me confused. I've seen 2 different sites say that i should have Glyph of Death Coil. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this ability isn't exactly in my normal rotation. I use it if a target moves out of range, or if I need to make a caster mad at me and don't have Death Grip available. Why glyph it over RS, DS or HS? Three abilities that get used VERY often.
    Death Coil Glyph is the choice if you're running a Lichborne spec. The strength of Lichborne spec is it gives you another cooldown of sorts to recover lost health. EJ covers it well (especially Riggnaros). Basically, you pop Lichborne, and cast death coil at yourself. Each death coil will heal you a fair amount. Talents and the glyph only strengthen this effect.

    Rune Strike... it's a critical strike buff. Not our primary job as a tank. Death Strike.... it's a damage buff. Again, not our primary job as a tank, and if you're using rune strike a lot, you won't have much runic power saved up for the bonus anyway. Heart Strike Glyph.... is pretty much a must have. At least in my view.

    Again, it's a play style choice. If you're going for maximum effectiveness as a boss tank, it's likely going to be the strongest choice for survival.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregasaurous View Post
    Also, real quick, is the gem priority really any different from that of what I'm used to on my war? I understand that having more health on a DK can be helpful due to it also increasing heals of DS, which increases blood shield, but id doesn't out-way the value of mastery and parry? Also how helpful is it to have expertise to help DS's happen on the first try?
    More health doesn't increase the amount healed. Not anymore. It used to back in WotLK. Expertise currently has high value due to deathstrike and the deathstrike heals/mastery being tied together. If you don't hit.... no goodies. However!........ if you're gearing for 4.3, it'll be a different ballgame. In 4.3 the heal and mastery will still kick in even if the strike itself misses.

    As for the stat priority, you'll get some disagreement, but in general mastery > dodge = parry > stam. Consider, what is the DK's weak point? Taking full unmitigated hits. Mastery helps you smooth out incoming damage. The more you have, the longer your bloodshield will last (theoretically) or at least, the more it will be able to absorb.

    Targets? Mastery, you want to aim for 100% bloodshield. That being you get a blood shield equal to 100% of the amount healed. You can go higher, but most DK's will be hard pressed to argue for much less. After that, dodge. Reason why is we get a bonus to parry from strength and if you runeforge with swordshattering, you'll get a +4% parry. Really, the main goal is to try and balance dodge/parry without diminishing returns in either. Stam..... honestly you'll get more as you improve gear. Plus, we do get a small modifier from blood presence, though it is not as strong as the bonus that druids receive.

    I've built mine with a focus on trying to balance mastery and avoidance. I'm not chasing mastery like crazy because, well.... at some point, what is 1% mastery really worth compared to a loss in avoidance? You have to remember, DK's can't really "chase" CTC like the shield tanks can.

    Just think:

    more mastery = potentially smoother damage and better burst/low frequency attack management (bear boss in ZA great example where this shines)
    more avoidance = better mob/trash/high frequency attack management

    For a REALLY in-depth view at blood tanking, I'd honestly recommend Riggins' post in Elitist Jerks. It's the second post in the link below:


    http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t125290-...e_tanking_4_x/

    No. It's not exactly short. He does give rationale behind pretty much everything he talks about and relates it in a way that's very "human". To me, it came across as if he were having a conversation with "me" regarding blood tanking. He doesn't dictate, he discusses. +1 to him in my book.
    No one tanks in a void.........

  3. #3
    More health doesn't increase the amount healed. Not anymore. It used to back in WotLK
    Not to be pedantic, but strictly speaking more health can increase DS healing because it's a minimum of 7% of your max health.

  4. #4
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    I like Blood tap it's an Extra Rune ever 30seconds which is nice if you need to suddenly use and ability and you're in a rune blackout, or if you need to put bone shield back up without breaking a FU pair

    The reason you Glyph deathcoil is for Lichborne spec, you pool RP, pop Lichborne and spam DC's at yourself as they will heal you whilst under the effects of Lichborne. If you don't take lichborne GoDC isn't really all that good. 15% increase in its healing is nice, if you can capitalize on it.

    the gearing is mostly the same, except DOdge/parry rating should be kept identical as DKs have no HtL equivalent, Stam has no effect on the healing of your DS (unless you're taking less that 1.4% of your health as damage per second). expertise is more useful the worse you are at dealing with parries and dodges, if you can't react to those fast enough expertise is very useful, if you're hotter than shit off a stick, expertise is fairly meh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    Not to be pedantic, but strictly speaking more health can increase DS healing because it's a minimum of 7% of your max health.
    Forgot that. You are correct sir.
    No one tanks in a void.........

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    Thank you all very much for the replies, that really clears up a lot. Real quick, for dodge=parry, can i get some specification here. I would assume that the Rune of Swordshattering is 4% on top over everything else and not affected by DR, and therefor your total chance to parry should actually come out on top of dodge by 4% due to this?

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    Last time i checked in game thats was how it acted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leucifer View Post


    Targets? Mastery, you want to aim for 100% bloodshield. That being you get a blood shield equal to 100% of the amount healed. You can go higher, but most DK's will be hard pressed to argue for much less. After that, dodge. Reason why is we get a bonus to parry from strength and if you runeforge with swordshattering, you'll get a +4% parry. Really, the main goal is to try and balance dodge/parry without diminishing returns in either. Stam..... honestly you'll get more as you improve gear. Plus, we do get a small modifier from blood presence, though it is not as strong as the bonus that druids receive.

    I've built mine with a focus on trying to balance mastery and avoidance. I'm not chasing mastery like crazy because, well.... at some point, what is 1% mastery really worth compared to a loss in avoidance? You have to remember, DK's can't really "chase" CTC like the shield tanks can.

    Just think:

    more mastery = potentially smoother damage and better burst/low frequency attack management (bear boss in ZA great example where this shines)
    more avoidance = better mob/trash/high frequency attack management
    Sorry for the necro on this post, but why only 100%? I think I had a 100% shield a day after I hit 85, and only 100% really doesn't do that much for you. On a lot of boss fights that's maybe 1 hit from the boss? If I hit this is it REALLY more beneficial to gem Dodge? and to what point? Will more blood shield ever outweigh the DR on Dodge?

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    Also the 4% from RSS is a static additive, It doesn't and is not affected by the diminishing return on parry rating, SO you still want to keep your parry and dodge ratings equal, or as close to it as possible to minimise DRs on both. Leucifer's right that avoidance is favourable against trash, and if what your mainly wiping on is trash should gear accordingly, however most raid DKs are wiping on raid bosses, I think maybe Leucifer's comment about 100% is due to the fact that Blood shield Caps at 100% of your health but unless your take a very specific amount of incoming damage feel free to go above 16 mastery.

    Really you want both; Avoidance to prolong bone shield up time, Mastery to ensure you always have blood shields to smooth out the incoming damage, and due to the lack of DR on mastery it quickly scales ahead of avoidance in providing over all damage reduction. At the end of the day gear your toon according to what it faces, lots of small fast hits you probably want more avoidance than you would if your generally tanking something that hits slow and hard.

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    Thank you again for the advice. I'm gearing this guy for an FL alt run in my guild so I'll probably be looking to raid boss tanking. If i can get some drops from BH and a full t11 clear hopefully I'll be doing FL this weekend. Anyway, point being, I don't plan on doing to many 5 mans though i might have to spam ZA/ZG for the the helm and shoulders out of ZA if nothing drops in the t11 raids. So far the only thing that really hurts are the bear mobs in ZA. I usually save some cd's for those cause I have plenty of experience dealing with them on my warrior.

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