25 Domo hm threat issues

[Beardcleave]

Hello friends! My guild has recently been working on Mojordomo hm 25m. I noticed on 3-4 out of 15 or so attempts I would lose aggro on around the 30sec mark and as a result a melee would die. I know 200% damage buff makes is a bit difficult to get aggro at the start. We run with 3 hunters and 3 rogues and looking over the logs I noticed I'm only get 1 MD at the beginning to start the fight and 1 ToT around that time. Should all the hunters give me an MD and the 3 rogues hit me with ToT right off the bat? Would that help getting me the initial threat that I need? Like I said, this isn't happening every attempt, it's just something I'd like to prevent. If it helps, I play a warrior tank with all FL gear with 2 heroic pieces, so I'm pretty I'm sure it's not a gear thing. Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

[aresius]

Im not a warrior and have been raiding mainly 10mans, so ill just give some generic feedback.
After the 500% threat buff seeing people coming close to take threat has been much less common, you might want to make sure you are making a optimal pull (Im sure one of the forum´s warriors can give better advice on optimal prot warr pulling then me).
That said, some classes (for me its normally mages) can put out a alarming amount of threat during the pull. If you arent getting apropriate help (tricks and MD), as well as threat cooldowns off these high dps (mages going invis, hands of salvation, FD, etc), its conceivable, if not expected, that you may lose aggro, and your raid should work on that.
I never played with more then one hunter or rogue in my 10man, but Id say only one MD in a 25man raid party is simple slacking from your team.

[Lilreggie]

Aresius, do you have experience with HM domo? If not, the issue is that all dps do 200% damage in that fight. That more than negates the 66% increase in threat we received.

And beard, I would just say that you need the initial M's and ToT's but after that rogues will be trading ToT's to max dps. Make sure you are using recklessness around the time your vengeance breaks 10k or so. Also, using your shield block offensively for heavy repercussions will help greatly. Other than that, the only thing I could think of would be an improper spec/rotation. Without more info on those, I can't really help you.

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[Bigbad]

Prepot a strengthpotion, use recklessness, retaliation when he jumps away. Most important part is ignoring the adds the first 7 leaps and just focussing on the boss. Our arcane mages usually have to invis, sometimes i just keep ahead, our fury warrior died once when i was slacking and not focussing on the boss. You should get an MD from every hunter there isn't a reason not to.

Proper spec(8/2/31) with deep wounds, incite etc would be mandatory as said above. Proper use of inner rage and can maybe use the rep trinket with strength on use if you have troubles but i don't on this fight.

[leethaxor]

Around the 30 second mark is when players normally gain full concentration, Timewarp is used and every cooldown every player has is used. I know myself as an arcane mage I can easily jet up to around the 200 to 250% threat marker during this time. Which mage invis, is awesome for.

As big pointed out, you want to pre-pot strength, reck, shield block, inner rage (for more heroic strikes), and keep SS on cooldown. Your goal is to build a massive threat lead.

If this doesn't work:

Use your mages. Tell them to delay invisibility and after mirror images fades taunt the boss and jump way up on the threat table. This will take some trust, because seeing a giant flame cat run at you is pretty scary, regardless if you knew it would happen or not.

[Tengenstein]

How much of your damage is Heroic Strike? Do you use Revenge? what's your spec? what glyphs you using? hows your rend up time?

[Beardcleave]

Thanks for the quick replies guys! I noticed my spec was wrong after one of you guys said something about it. I had 2 points in thunderstruck and 1/3 in deep wounds. It was an oversight on my part when I respecced after heroic shannox(I use piercing howl for that fight). What I usually do on the pull is get 1 MD from the hunter to start the fight, pop my trinket(Essence of the eternal flame), shield block(with heavy repercussion talent) and then inner rage. Heroic strike is second behind devastate for damage and my rend uptime is around 75-80%. Like I said, my issue is only through the first minute, once I get past that point and nobody has died I'm usually far enough ahead in threat it's not an issue. I've corrected my spec and I'll start prepotting with golemblood potions on the pull. I also throw retaliation in there for the first cat jump as well. We are going back in there tomorrow night to try again so I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/darkspear/Beardcleave/simple
My armory hasn't updated in like a week and half for some reason but since then I've got the heroic shannox belt and the Beth sword as upgrades. Also my spec has been fixed.

[Tengenstein]

Heroic Strike should be your single greatest source of damage on that fight (and any fight where you have most of your time on the boss) it should be around 33% of your damage. Then Shield Slam and Devastate both should be around 15%ish of your total damage shield slam should be slightly ahead.

Going off your armoury link; you want to drop either Thunderstruck or Imp.Revenge completely and finish off deep wounds and heavy repercussions. Ditch glyph of heroic Throw you're a prot warrior, you don't need this glyph, get Glyph of Shockwave instead.

[Beardcleave]

Heroic Strike should be your single greatest source of damage on that fight (and any fight where you have most of your time on the boss) it should be around 33% of your damage. Then Shield Slam and Devastate both should be around 15%ish of your total damage shield slam should be slightly ahead.

Going off your armoury link; you want to drop either Thunderstruck or Imp.Revenge completely and finish off deep wounds and heavy repercussions. Ditch glyph of heroic Throw you're a prot warrior, you don't need this glyph, get Glyph of Shockwave instead.

My armory has not been updated for what ever reason but my spec has been fixed. As for glyphs, my secondary glyphs change often and what is on the armory does not necessarily reflect what I'm currently using. I'm using inner rage on cd and using heroic strike and shield slam whenever they're available, as well as using shield block offensively. I only use devastate as a filler, which is often, but I do not prioritize it over other abilities. I tend to use cleave more than heroic strike on this particular boss to help kill the cat adds. Should I not be doing this and simply heroic striking domo instead?

[Bigbad]

Use heroic strike at the start till you got solid aggro after that cleaving is good

[Tengenstein]

I generally found that by the time Staghelm returned from his jump the melee and myself had polished off the add, meaning if I did cleave, I didn't hit both. We essentially single target the add down while Domo is off with the ranged. If you've got 2 targets in range then by all means Cleave but otherwise Heroic strike.

can you give us a wow log?

[Beardcleave]

I generally found that by the time Staghelm returned from his jump the melee and myself had polished off the add, meaning if I did cleave, I didn't hit both. We essentially single target the add down while Domo is off with the ranged. If you've got 2 targets in range then by all means Cleave but otherwise Heroic strike.

can you give us a wow log?

Here is the log from Thursday nights attempts.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/efemc91c6oaq3dew/

Btw, thanks for the help Tengenstein, I appreciate it. This is the only boss I've had any issues with in FL and I knew I had to be doing something wrong.

[Tengenstein]

Okay had a looksee and going off the longest attempt log (try 9) you need get better at reacting to SnB procs. You were averaging having it up for 3.2 seconds. that should be closer to 1.5s. Shield slam is your first priority when it comes to threat, get a power aura or something Loud and obnoxious to go off whenever SnB procs so you hit SS asap. Get something to help you with Rend timing. try to make sure you Refresh it every 12 seconds only delay it if Shield slam is off GCD, in which case either TC to refresh it afterwards or Rend to put it back up. Once those two things are tkaen care of you either want to use Dev or you trucks, use dev if it wll shorten SS's CD otherwise Use your trucks; CB (HT if CB is on CD, SW if CB and HT are on CD), and reverse that order if you want to maximise DPS rather than TPS. CB and HT both have additional threat modifyers, Heroic throw in Def stance will do 7.5x its damage as threat, CB will do 10x its damage as threat.

Also notice Revenge doesn't figure anywhere in there. It's unfortunate cack for single target these days, Only use it if you have > less than 6 rage or 2 targets.

[Beardcleave]

Thanks for the advice! I rarely use HT unless it's an opener or to grab threat on an add outside of melee range, also never though of using CB for threat. I've been using for it's stun more than anything. I'll try this stuff out and hopefully it will eliminate the threat problems I was having. Some of this has to do with me just being lazy since the threat increase as well

[Tengenstein]

If threats not an issue you should be focusing on maximising Deeps once your survival is assured.