Previous content servers - a must have

[STBU]

I'm currently not subbed won't have time to for a while. I'll have to see when I get back if I feel like wow or gw2 or if I even have time between Army, college, and females to dedicate a lot of time to an mmo. Back in bc I did my homework hopped on wow found random ppl for a premade, constant wins from 4 to 10, made friends, went to bed rinse repeat my day. I wish I could still do this at my will today but it doesn't seem so. And for arenas I had friends from premades who could hook my warrior up

[Zaronis]

The problem is not the version of World of Warcraft you are playing.

The problem is the kind of players we have today.

I don't think World of Warcraft has trained players to be apathetic to winning or loosing. The game might be encouraging that kind of playstyle, but people still make that choice for themselves. There has been a shift in the attitude of the general community.

Blizzard could encourage people to try harder by removing honorable kills in battlegrounds, and not awarding honor to the losing team. That will not happen is because one faction's victories would snowball. This issue needs to be addressed by each player individually. Try talking to another PvPer one on one, outside a battleground. Ask if he wants to improve. When one says "yes" work with him, and show where research can be done.

[STBU]

Perhaps once I got time and patience because almost everyone nowadays has the I'm right you're wrong mindset, and whoever has better gear and ranking will always be listened to even if he's a complete idiot. Now if I can catch the ear of the right ppl like a guild leader, that's different. Like I said much to ponder once I got the time

[leethaxor]

Perhaps once I got time and patience because almost everyone nowadays has the I'm right you're wrong mindset, and whoever has better gear and ranking will always be listened to even if he's a complete idiot. Now if I can catch the ear of the right ppl like a guild leader, that's different. Like I said much to ponder once I got the time

Time is the investment your missing. Also you need to prove your good enough to get into the groups that work as a unit, you can't be a scrub in ZA/ZG, you may have all the skill the in world. But you are the same as a block of iron, while refined, and ready to be smithed into a sword. It has no edge, and is no more a weapon then a stone.

[Tengenstein]

The problem is time. I rbg with the same people. And we are coordinated. Picking a random group of peeps will pf course yeild a lesser expierience than with a group your practiced with. The problem is that you're expecting a bunch of random scrubs to work well together. That isn't going to happen except by blind luck. Wow is still a social game, the people i raid with are my friends and it works because they are my friends, the people i rbg with are my friends and it works because they are my friends.R

[Kahmal]

This idea about old school severs comes up on the Official Forums all the time, Blizz has said over and over and over and over that they won't do this, that they want Azeroth to evolve and they want to create memories for players. It's really just whistling into the wind as far a Blizz is concerned.

Evolve and create memories? How many memories am i going to develop sitting in Orgrimmar all the damn time porting from instance to instance lol.

I agree as kewl as the idea is it would just screw things up. But i found that statement laughable, I dont have those random adventures that would spring up like in Classic or TBC while I was actually out in the world cause there is little reason to be in it. WoTLK made it so you could make gold w/o leaving the capital and the deathblow was the LFD system.

I'm also baffled that on my server at least there is barely any fighting between Horde and Alliance in the Firelands quest hub. People seem to only be concerned about business these days unlike the days of the Isle of Quel'delnas.

[mavfin]

I'm also baffled that on my server at least there is barely any fighting between Horde and Alliance in the Firelands quest hub. People seem to only be concerned about business these days unlike the days of the Isle of Quel'delnas.

That's actually the fault of the min-maxers and the hardcore that push 'max X per hour' and all that, rather than having fun playing the game; i.e. they say world PvP takes away from their min/max daily time, so that's bad in their eyes. World PvP died when the min/maxers realized you could get much more honor per hour in BGs.

I don't PvP myself, but there's a LOT of things that we used to do outside the cities that people don't do anymore *because* it's not the most efficient way, but, no one goes and does these fun things, either. So, the community is as much or more to blame than Blizzard.

[Kahmal]

Its not about min maxing in PvP. It was no secret that BGs got you the most honor but they get repetitive while World PvP is in a different scenario and no holds barred. Whether you fought over a Khorium Node, the Summoning Stone or the entire questing territory it was something that sprung up.

[mavfin]

Its not about min maxing in PvP. It was no secret that BGs got you the most honor but they get repetitive while World PvP is in a different scenario and no holds barred. Whether you fought over a Khorium Node, the Summoning Stone or the entire questing territory it was something that sprung up.

Yeah, and that's all about the fun. The min/maxers have convinced (somehow) the community that you're wasting your time if you're not doing things the 'optimal' way. It's a disease you see even here on Tankspot. Millions of people play the game, for various reasons, but many in the community look down on anyone that doesn't do it their way, and unfortunately, the lemmings follow them.

[Fetzie]

Yeah, and that's all about the fun. The min/maxers have convinced (somehow) the community that you're wasting your time if you're not doing things the 'optimal' way. It's a disease you see even here on Tankspot. Millions of people play the game, for various reasons, but many in the community look down on anyone that doesn't do it their way, and unfortunately, the lemmings follow them.

World of Warcraft is a math based game. Everything to do with DPS and incoming damage can be mathed out and expressed with equations. Given certain restrictions there will ALWAYS be the "best" dps specc, the "best" way to reduce damage taken and likewise the least "optimal" way to go about things. Yes, stuff in normal mode raids will fall over by pretty much breathing at it, but there are going to be encounters where you need every damage per second that you can muster. I could regem to Spirit, only use crusader strike and ShoR and still be able to tank; this doesn't mean there isn't a way to "tank better".

[orcstar]

Reality check:
PvP in Vanilla was a joke. World of one shot craft and if you weren't one of the few in the highest tier of PvE content you wouldn't stand a chance and there was no way to catch up gearwise.
Premades were a joke too, because premades were only there to rofl-stomp the unorganized opposition, wasn't about being good at PvP it was only about getting the easy win.

The normal battlegrounds these days are about one thing only and that's getting gear so you can start competing in arena's and rbg.

Having said that, your destiny is in your own hands. Too many complainers and too little do-ers. People are waiting for guidance and as soon as someone give that guidance you will already have an edge over the opposing team. Start guiding and people will listen. This can be as simple as saying in battleground chat: "ok 10 people needed to defend Galvangar" in Alterac, or saying "gogogo for the towers and ignore the flag" in eye of the storm.
I've personally changed tides of battle with just a few lines in battleground chat. It won't always work and you always have the haters, but when it does and you see the "gj" comments at the end of a battle it gives a good feeling.
One of the hardest things if you try this though is to keep your cool. Whatever happens, don't start calling people morons or whatever and use a positive approach. Ignore people using foul language and try to come over as mature.

Try it, you'll bang your head on the keyboard once in a while, but otoh, the other day I managed to get a victory while defending Tol Barad just by having the entire raid circlejerking around and taking the bases the alliance had taken. I got a lot of compliments for that of people who thought it wasn't even possible to win a defense. It felt good and wasn't hard.
A friend of mine is better at pvp, sees things better and when we're on vent, helps me a lot. But somehow he doesn't use those qualities in battlegrounds to help the team. He's afraid to speak up. What do you have to lose? You will probably never meet them in real life so give it a chance.

[mavfin]

World of Warcraft is a math based game. Everything to do with DPS and incoming damage can be mathed out and expressed with equations. Given certain restrictions there will ALWAYS be the "best" dps specc, the "best" way to reduce damage taken and likewise the least "optimal" way to go about things. Yes, stuff in normal mode raids will fall over by pretty much breathing at it, but there are going to be encounters where you need every damage per second that you can muster. I could regem to Spirit, only use crusader strike and ShoR and still be able to tank; this doesn't mean there isn't a way to "tank better".

Fetzie, I was talking about PvP and why there's no world PvP, while you went off on the raiding thing, which I know all about, and while you were at it illustrated my exact point, because you obviously didn't even read or get the context of my post. People bitch about there being no world PvP, but, they look down on anyone who doesn't do it the 'optimal' way, so, they shoot themselves in the foot by doing so. People bitch about everyone staying in the cities and just running dungeons and raiding. Well, that's because that's the 'optimal' use of time to get the rewards, and if you do something else, the lemmings will point at you and laugh, and a lot of people are too insecure to go their own way and actually play for fun.

Also, the new talents are made to give a bit more choice, as the current talent system really doesn't have any, since there's always the mathed-out, 'best' build for every class/spec. *Some* of the talents in the new system (not all) are actually a preference thing, and not really math-able, and all the old math-able stuff is simply built-in, since Blizzard saw that no one really deviated from the cookie-cutters anyway, so they decided to stop maintaining all that for people who didn't use it.

[Kahmal]

Fetzie, I was talking about PvP and why there's no world PvP, while you went off on the raiding thing, which I know all about, and while you were at it illustrated my exact point, because you obviously didn't even read or get the context of my post. People bitch about there being no world PvP, but, they look down on anyone who doesn't do it the 'optimal' way, so, they shoot themselves in the foot by doing so. People bitch about everyone staying in the cities and just running dungeons and raiding. Well, that's because that's the 'optimal' use of time to get the rewards, and if you do something else, the lemmings will point at you and laugh, and a lot of people are too insecure to go their own way and actually play for fun.

Also, the new talents are made to give a bit more choice, as the current talent system really doesn't have any, since there's always the mathed-out, 'best' build for every class/spec. *Some* of the talents in the new system (not all) are actually a preference thing, and not really math-able, and all the old math-able stuff is simply built-in, since Blizzard saw that no one really deviated from the cookie-cutters anyway, so they decided to stop maintaining all that for people who didn't use it.

I personally thought the lack of World PvP stemmed off of the fact that daily quest hubs since WoTLK became pretty useless. Conflicts would spring up all around daily hubs in TBC. Cata has the Firelands hub and very rarely do I see people getting into fights. Its just odd to me.

[sifuedition]

On my server, there is a MASSIVE faction imbalance. I have simply written off FL dailies. No point in trying... Which is not fun in a game. In fact, it makes ne question why I pay.

[Leucifer]

90% of the OP's problem is his own attitude.

Looking at this and his posts, it's mainly a QQ, "gawsh back in the old days...."....

Look gramps. Things change. Simple fact of life. Adapt. Overcome.

You liked rolling in premades and smoking probably disorganized, random, clusterf**ks for fun. Who doesn't? Who doesn't like winning? That's part of what killed Wintergrasp in WotLK on my server. Horde DOMINATED. A lot of people ended up faction jumping as soon as the opportunity arose. They went to roll with the "winners". Problem was, alliance simply stopped giving a damn. WG became all-horde, all-the-time. Were any of them interested in jumping back over to make it competitive? No.

Which reminds me... I had the exquisite joy of slaughtering an old guildie last night that did just that. Ahhhhh......

Anyway.... so, things changed. Guess what? You're the old-school guy.... PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER.
You whine about community? DEVELOP ONE. I know. Might require some work. Might have to teach the noob to not go soloing off on their own. Or crazier yet, you might need to roll a healer and become the support for these other guys, show them firsthand the difference it makes.

As a former military guy myself, I'll tell you the same thing I tell the kids I see here at my workplace every day.....
You don't like it? Then man up and lead from the front. Easy to sit back and follow and whine.

Now I sound like the old man. F***. See what ya got me doing?

Start small. Find some like-minded people and set a committment to doing something. Maybe a 5 man pre-made team for random bg's every other night for 2 hours. Sure, it's not a full 10.... but you'd be surprised at the effect that 5 good players can have on a random group. If you guys show you know what you're doing and stomp people.... guess what.... other people will notice and fall in line.

[Leucifer]

On my server, there is a MASSIVE faction imbalance. I have simply written off FL dailies. No point in trying... Which is not fun in a game. In fact, it makes ne question why I pay.

If you're on a pvp server..... heads up!
Most of them ARE extremely unbalanced. Except the RP ones for whatever reason. Those seem to have a tighter ratio.

[Kahmal]

I could have sworn in Vanilla there was a system that made it so the factions were moderately balanced, or perhaps I'm thinking of another game.

[mavfin]

I could have sworn in Vanilla there was a system that made it so the factions were moderately balanced, or perhaps I'm thinking of another game.

Must be another game.

[Charon]

Leucifer, despite the wall-o-text, I kinda really love your response! I agree that the lack of community sucks, and leading from the front is always the best way to fix that. Great comment, Father Time! Lol.

[Mustache]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see them do a progression locked server like EQ did.. at some point, but it will probably be too little too late just like EQ's. The only thing I do in fact miss is being uncapped on your own progression, granted the VP cap lets me play for 6 hours a week and max out my progression for the week, its just frustrating to not be able to do more even if I wanted to. I wonder how long til they put an item in the blizzard shop to let you have a higher VP cap each week.. lol.