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Thread: 20 fire resist or 250 armor

  1. #1
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    20 fire resist or 250 armor

    So was taken a look at back enchants and was thinking about using 20 fire resist over the 250 armor. was wondering your thoughts

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=38969

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=52767


    "The greatest snowball isn't a snowball at all, it's fear"

  2. #2
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    250 armor. Unless you're in a progression fight where that 20 fire resist takes you up to the next tier of guaranteed resistance.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-c..._85_cataclysm/

    If that 20 resist doesn't get you from one tier to another, raid buffed, it's not going to be any help unless a CD like Aura Mastery pushes it past, and then only for that time that Aura Mastery is active.

    So check your raid-buffed fire resistance. If it's not with 20 of the next tier (I don't know if the levels are player levels or against mob levels--- hopefully I'll learn something here) - then it's pretty much a wasted enchant except for maybe a CD like Aura Mastery.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  3. #3
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    I thought they dropped resistance tiers a long time ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

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    IIRC there are still "tiers" or resistance, but they are now much closer together. Before you had the 25, 50 and 75% thresholds, now it is more like 5% increments.

    As for the enchant, I cannot think of a boss that would rate fire resistance over armor. The closest I can get in the current tier is Baleroc, although the fire damage phases are even then only about a quarter or a third of the fight.

  5. #5
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    Ya, Well if you look at rag with a consistent fire debuff. Its also a consideration of smoothing damage further. All block dodge parry and armor is helping the physical. Utilizing all possible areas to help midagate magic even if the total amount of magic damage is less may prove helpful.


    spider also has huge and significant fire damage.
    "The greatest snowball isn't a snowball at all, it's fear"

  6. #6
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    Can you resist the damage from Burning Wound? Can you resist Ember Flare? I'm not 100% sure on either.

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    As warrior you don't need that enchant ,cause you have shield block + TB trinket.As paladin even less DP+TB trinket,same is for DKs,for bears I dont know tbh.But all magical dmg from bosses if we exclude spider boss (cant be resisted aoe) is not something that is looking as spam of spells on tank.

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    Burning Wound damage is pretty low anyway, 20 resistance isn't going to make any noticeable difference whatsoever. Reducing trap explosion damage on the other hand is something you have tol'barad trinkets for.

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    Hmmm, well burning wound is close to 100 percent uptime while physical is 50 percent uptime. Also there is the explosions in p2. I haven't made my mind up either way tbh
    "The greatest snowball isn't a snowball at all, it's fear"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrea View Post
    Burning Wound damage is pretty low anyway, 20 resistance isn't going to make any noticeable difference whatsoever. Reducing trap explosion damage on the other hand is something you have tol'barad trinkets for.
    The fight consists of about 50% fire damage on the tanks on both normal and heroic mode, slightly more on heroic obviously.

    Traps, tanking debuff, seed's explosion, add's melee hit, melee and ranged kick, superheated (p4), lava bolts (shooting around all the time during intermission), dreadflame (p4).

    195 resistance - aura/totem
    90 resistance - elixir
    20 resistance - enchant

    isn't enough to reach another "breakpoint", according to Loganisis link it's
    196
    252
    316
    so you'll have to use elixir + aura and don't need to bother with the back enchant unless you're willing to enchant your head as well (if those enchants even exists any longer, i'm not entirely sure about that).
    Last edited by klausi; 09-12-2011 at 04:45 AM.

  11. #11
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    There were resist enchants added in wrath: http://www.wowhead.com/item=44141

    I suppose if you used both, that'd be 195+90+20+25=330 which takes you to average 30% / minimum 20% resist bracket?

  12. #12
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    Seriously - this talk about breakpoints is confusing. What is meant by it, and where are the numbers supporting any breakpoint?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  13. #13
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    Break point - the point at which X rating will finally give Y benefit. For example - 2005 haste is a break point for resto druids, it's when they get another tick on one of their spells.

    In this context, a break point is when you reach another incriment of guaranteed reduction. From the link I posted earlier:
    http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-c..._85_cataclysm/

    Code:
    Resistance Values (Rounded to the first decimal)    
    Average Damage Reduction \ Levels    85
    5%    30.9
    10%    65.3
    15%    103.7
    20%    146.9
    25%    195.8
    30%    251.8
    35%    316.3
    40%    391.7
    45%    480.7
    50%    587.5
    55%    718.1
    60%    881.3
    65%    1091.1
    70%    1370.8
    75%    1762.5
    So you need 196 resistance to average 25% magic reduction, but any individual resist could be from 15% to 35%.
    Reistance from 197 to 251 is esseintially 'wasted' stince it doesn't give you any benefit (unless you're right that's its pure scaling and not tiered - though I don't recall anything saying it's isn't tiered anymore).

    So in the case of pulled:
    Totem/Aura = 195
    Elixir = 90

    So he has 285 resistance rating. That the 30% average (20-40% on any individual resist). To reach the next 'breakpoint' where there's a noticeable benefit he needs 317-285 = 32 more resistance.

    In this case the 20 cloak enchant wouldn't actually buy him anything as it doesn't get him any additional reduction, he's still in the same tier.

    In the event of Aura Mastery with a Pally Aura up - 390 + 90 = 480, which is just below the 45% tier, so the cloak enchant would only be valuable when a pally uses Aura Mastery (as it would take him from the 40% tier into the 45% tier).

    ***

    Again though - this is with the caveat that I'm still under the belief that MR is tiered.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  14. #14
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    would it change anything to know i am alchemist that uses resist elixer?

    and if this does push me over. alchemy is probably bis atm am I right? At least for h rag progression
    Last edited by pulled; 09-12-2011 at 02:15 PM.
    "The greatest snowball isn't a snowball at all, it's fear"

  15. #15
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    Confirmed I am 320 fire resist.

    it wont affect aura mastery it will put me at 515.

    i think we broke the game, alch bis


    we should also take a look at the leatherworking enchant.
    Last edited by pulled; 09-12-2011 at 02:38 PM.
    "The greatest snowball isn't a snowball at all, it's fear"

  16. #16
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    People are mixing up 2 parts of the resistance here:

    Average reduction (as linked in the table) is pretty linear, it will help for every point of resistance.
    The breakpoints are when you guarantee a certain amount of reduction every time.
    To compare to Haste:
    Average resistance is like cast haste, it's always better.
    Breakpoint resistance values are like hots/dots: It adds a chunk, then does nothing.

    If you're looking at breakpoint values (which is the only useful point of resistance for tanks, as magic is only a small part of the damage you take, it just comes in big chunks), you need to check the formula of P(X) :

    P(X) = 0.5 - 2.5 * (DR - X) with DR = Res / (Res + Cr)
    Set P(X) to 0.00% and fiddle around with that, you should get...
    Res = (5X + 1) / (4 - 5X) * Cr
    So if you want to know the breakpoint for a 20% minimum resistance, fill in X = 0.15
    The formula will tell you exactly at which point you'll never get 15% reduction anymore (thus always 20% or higher)
    At a Cr of 724 for lvl88 spells, you get following table:
    Min reduction > resistance required
    5% > 181
    10% > 242
    15% > 311
    20% > 390
    25% > 483
    30% > 593
    35% > 724
    40% > 885
    45% > 1086
    50% > 1345
    55% > 1690
    60% > 2172 (=75% average cap)
    All rounded up to nearest integer

    So basicly the cloak enchant only helps hitting breakpoints when you receive aura mastery (= not enough to beat armor).
    Raid buff = 5% guaranteed.
    + elixir = 10%
    alchemist with cloak enchant = 15%
    LW Fur Lining = +5%
    As the Fur Lining is still the best you can get as LW (+70 resistance), you can actually hit 20% guaranteed magic reduction as LW/Alch, although you'll need to find you some Arctic Fur for the bracer enchants.
    Last edited by Airowird; 09-14-2011 at 03:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airowird View Post
    although you'll need to find you some Arctic Fur for the bracer enchants.
    Howling Fjord - farm shoveltusks for 10 minutes, you'll have 3. Or enough leather to trade for 3.

    ****

    So - I'm more confused - is resistance still tiered? Which of the following is true?

    Resistance is always in incriments of 5%, so unless you can hit the next tier, you don't actually gain anything, or

    Resistance is linear, so the tiers listed are just for ease understanding?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  18. #18
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    Airowird, ty for clearing that up. One thing i think you missed is i can only reach 320 resist with alch and the enchant to back(at least w/o leathworking or using like level 60 gear). if not i sit at 300. So ya you need cloak plus alch. I will re confirm this to make sure also.


    reconfirmed- enchant to back, buff, aura, elixer=320
    with auramastery it was 515
    Last edited by pulled; 09-13-2011 at 03:04 PM.
    "The greatest snowball isn't a snowball at all, it's fear"

  19. #19
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    Fixed my post now, pulled.

    Loganisis: Resistance is per 5% bracket, but it's chance, so every point of resistance helps, but certain amounts guarantee you always get a certain amount of resistance.
    Similar to Block: Every % of Block chance helps reduce overall damage, but only certain breakpoints guarantee a reduction on every hit (in case of block just 1, or 2 if you're a Warrior with too much stats)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  20. #20
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    And they got rid of ArP because that was too mathy... thats 1st grade math compared to this XD

    That makes sense - I still can't fully see how it works, but I understand it - if that makes any sense. Thanks
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

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