ctc cap warrior question

[Gneecapper]

Most of the guides I've read suggest going after a mix of avoidance and Stamina, for both Paladins and Warriors that are block capped. Can you link anything that would lean towards stacking more crit block?

No I can't lol. That whole post was my opinion based on what I've seen and as you can see I favor avoidance :P

[Takethecake]

I believe for warriors their was a lengthy debate on EJ on stacking mastery over CTC and their was math for and against it. I think after ctc it comes down to what you want to do, their isn't a right or wrong answer. You can tweak your expertise to pull out a little extra dps or you could stack stam to give you both a higher vengeance cap and health pool, or you could ride the ctc cap while maximizing avoidance. At this point the differences are so minor that it's purely up to your playstyle/group dynamic / personal preference.

[Kavaren]

Wont be stacking avoid, it will be STA.

6%+ hit and exp softcap most likely for Revenge shields (with 2p)

[Airowird]

Revenge shields are not worth the extra hit/exp over avoidance.

Considering Mastery post-cap is just as dependant on RNG and better gear will actually devalue crit block (more avoidance, even just from strength will decrease block chance, thus overall crit blocks), avoidance post cap is better.
There is a good reason to go 108% for the bosses that seem to have extra expertise, but that is actually still getting the cap, not going beyond it.

[klausi]

Most of the guides I've read suggest going after a mix of avoidance and Stamina, for both Paladins and Warriors that are block capped. Can you link anything that would lean towards stacking more crit block?

Depends on raidsize, for 25m stamina looks way more appealing to counter bursty bosses like Shannox heroic.

And for 10m, paladin: that's ok when you're decked in 378, but when you finally shift out your last normal piece you'll likely be sitting at 200k+ hitpoints raidbuffed anyways. If you're lucky enough to get the right offpieces (high mastery ones like bracer, belt, helmet) you can easily snag in a Scales of Life trinket for an extra cooldown or go for 40%+ avoidance (including miss).

And for 10m, warrior: unless you got the two right professions and you're a nelf it's rather unlikely you got much wiggle room if you want to reach that cap with a mirror anyways. Sneaking in 2-3 stamina gems or gem for dodge instead mastery won't change your play noticeable.

@bigshootr8
I doubt you'll see any real difference, outside of Baleroc (maybe Beth'tilac after 35 stacks) there wasn't any tankkiller around in firelands, when you wiped it was most likely due to hitting the enrage timer or screwing up something else (before). Even after all those weeks i can recite those wipes from sole tank death.

[kopcap]

There is a good reason to go 108% for the bosses that seem to have extra expertise

What bosses have expertise? Baleroc's table was screwed due to dual wielding I believe. Its a small error of about 0.5% or so anyway. I heard people complain about Rag but never saw any logs to support this. Parses that show tiny discrepancies of a couple of hits in the "Damage by spell" tab are common, but I was never able to link this to Rag in any way or form outside the movement periods.

I think after ctc it comes down to what you want to do, their isn't a right or wrong answer.

I would disagree. Stam and mastery/avoidance approaches will have distinctly different impacts on your burst time.

[Airowird]

I am unsure about Baleroc's table being 'screwed', but as some people have reported full hits at 102.4% Unhittable cap on specific bosses only (although I think some Rag logs might be positioning issues), but regardless, if the increased expertise is true, it is a valid argument for that extra trinket on some fights.

As for Burst Time past the Unhittable cap: Stamina has a slight edge on Dodge/Parry (for most gear setups, YMMV), Mastery tends to lose too much value past the cap to be worth it (it's about the value of buff Armor for your average T12 tank). But the overall impact on Burst Time is not that far apart of Stamina & Avoidance to call them 'distinct'

[Fetzie]

Baleroc's Inferno Blade cannot miss, thus requiring 107.4% CTC to ensure you block. Any other non-block above 102.4% is, to the best of my knowledge, a combatlog parsing error (full absorbs seem to not register the block reduction)

[kopcap]

if the increased expertise is true

Since there is no evidence that it is, lets just drop it to avoid further confusion.

(Inferno has nothing to do with expertise obv, its a different mechanic).

As for Burst Time past the Unhittable cap: Stamina has a slight edge on Dodge/Parry (for most gear setups, YMMV), Mastery tends to lose too much value past the cap to be worth it (it's about the value of buff Armor for your average T12 tank). But the overall impact on Burst Time is not that far apart of Stamina & Avoidance to call them 'distinct'

Individual mileage sure will vary, but in my current "stamina after ctc" setup, difference in burst time is tangible - we are talking 5-10% range here. I can easily see how this can be a difference between a cast and no cast.

But regardless of the mathematical difference there is a monumental difference between the two approaches.

Stamina is a guarantee that always works in the worst case scenario and against any type of damage.

Mastery/avoidance only works against melee and only when you are lucky.

[Airowird]

Ok, so the increased expertise isn't something we have encountered (yet?).

And I'm gonna point out that the entire point of Burst Time is not just to have a buffer for worst case scenario (Stamina), but also to reduce the odds of it happening (avoidance), so it already takes into account the chance to be 'lucky' as you put it.

[Kavaren]

Avoid will go up no matter what, but I doubt it will be stacked. Stamina will for warriors and paladins, druid and dk's will continue to stack mastery.

Hit/exp will naturally go up but will not likely be reforged out of - in fact you may not have to reforge your gear at all.

Higher STA and higher hit/exp combined along with the increase in AP buffs will affect tanks DPS to the point it will be like the blood craze vs deep wounds argument. In this case it is higher dps/absorbs vs. rng avoidance/rng overcap mastery.

[bigshootr8]

I think of anything in Firelands I'm least worried about is inferno blade CtC hard Cap+Shield Block+Mirror of broken images magic resistance use =win. I'm more concerned with decimation blade but I shield wall+shield block that so no worries.

[Destruyen]

nothing reduces decimation blade, only dodge/parry

[Strucker]

I think of anything in Firelands I'm least worried about is inferno blade CtC hard Cap+Shield Block+Mirror of broken images magic resistance use =win. I'm more concerned with decimation blade but I shield wall+shield block that so no worries.

Shield Wall and Shield Block do nothing to help with the Decimation Blades. The Strength on use trinket and strength pots help alittle by boosting your Parry chance but as a warrior thats about all you can do.

DKs have a nice edge on that fight with the self healing and their +20% parry CD.

[Destruyen]

DKs have a nice edge on that fight with the self healing and their +20% parry CD.

a cancelaura macro for barkskin for druids helps as well. just pop barkskin then cancel it when he casts decimation blade and enjoy 50%+ dodge

[Strucker]

a cancelaura macro for barkskin for druids helps as well. just pop barkskin then cancel it when he casts decimation blade and enjoy 50%+ dodge

Sadly im not as up to date on bear tanking as I am with the rest :/
I just know its great to see our DK parry all four decimation strikes in a row at least once every kill

[Destruyen]

its the feral t12 4pc, once barkskin ends you get a 10% dodge buff for 12 seconds....

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=99011

[bigshootr8]

To right you are with Decimate Blade. However, with Inferno Blade I don't recall ever causing any issues I think with the nerf to Decimate Blade would show why. I like Kocap's logic. I think once you hit the avoidance cap its probably best to push your stamina since it pushes your vengeance a little higher even by a small margin and offers a small amount of cushion.

[Tengenstein]

However, with Inferno Blade I don't recall ever causing any issues

It makes me rage starve

[Fetzie]

It makes me rage starve

Then use less cooldowns /jk