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Thread: Arms vs Fury

  1. #1
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    Arms vs Fury

    OK so I killed Halfus Wyrmbreaker for the first time ever tonight (yay me). I was happy with my 34k DPS in a mix of 353/359/378 gear, but I was told that before the 4.2 flat nerf, Arms warriors we doing 70k DPS, and that I should switch to Arms.

    I welcomed the change because it looks like I'm the best Fury warrior in alliance on my server, so there's really nobody I can go to for advice on improving.

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear really helped me improve my DPS by straightening out reforging, enchants, and gems on my gear, and I found my spec and rotation were wrong as well. Fixing all this had me doing more DPS than ever before (this in Fury spec). I was easily managing an average of 17k DPS through heroics and normal dungeon runs.

    Maybe I need more practice with the Arms rotation, but my dps on Siamat was 10k lower in Arms than it could've been in Fury.

    So for pve (in general), which spec is better? So far, it looks like Fury is clearly superior, or does play style affect things like this?

    Assuming I go back to and stick with Fury, can anyone give me some pro tips to squeeze every bit of DPS I can out of it?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    but my dps on Siamat was 10k lower in Arms than it could've been in Fury.
    ive heard in heroics arms was better for pve anyway.but i dont know,i only went arms cuz i liked playing it better then when i tried fury.i still might go fury it just depends on if i like playing it more then i did when i get colossus smash cuz im only lvl 76 right now

    and was this 70k dps popping all your cooldowns on trash? or some aoe phase of a fight.cuz 70k single target dps for arms sounds kinda high

    now that i think about it though,maybe i should try out fury again.cuz with that random raid finder thing coming out in the next patch if pugs arent complete fail(which im assuming the worst)i might actually do that when my toon hits 85 instead of just spamming heroics and pvping until i get bored of my warrior and then making another alt
    Last edited by PimpJuice4; 08-19-2011 at 07:12 PM.

  3. #3
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    Providing a link to your armory would be one of the first steps in helping out and also clarifying if you wish to play TG or SMF. As for the 70k to pimpjuice he is talking about Halfus which has a huge dps boost component.

  4. #4
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    As for the 70k to pimpjuice he is talking about Halfus which has a huge dps boost component
    aoeing whelps isnt a "huge dps boost component".im assuming popping all your cooldowns and bladestorming is how he got 70k


    unless he did heroic,cuz i thought i heard theres some dps boost mechanic on heroic but seeing as how ive never did halfus on heroic i cant really say for sure

  5. #5
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    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=87683
    Per drake is the damage boost in the Halfus encounter.

  6. #6
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    @Ragebark
    Here's my armory link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rtund/advanced
    Since writing the original post, I've gone back to Fury, but I think my reforging is a little broken still.

    Now that you guys mention the DPS boost component in the Halfus encounter, I'm not feeling so happy about my 34k... Now it seems pretty average again

    Additionally, the GM of the best alliance raiding guild on my server said something that I want a bit of clarification on.
    We were talking about Arms vs Fury and she mentioned that she thinks her 2 raiding warriors are arms now. I commented saying that if that's the case, then it's very likely I'm the best alliance fury warrior on the server. (Here's the part I need clarification on) She then said "well being the best isn't that good if u not using the best spec...".
    I thought "best spec" is subjective to play style. And is it not the case that regardless of popular opinion about which is the best spec, does it even matter if I can put out the DPS?

    I'm sure there are Arms warriors who can beat my DPS, and I'm pretty sure I can beat a lot of Arms warriors, so the concept of a "best spec" doesn't really exist does it?
    Last edited by Ortund; 08-20-2011 at 08:01 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ortund View Post
    "well being the best isn't that good if u not using the best spec...".
    They are still out damaging you will less skill due to their spec being better, if your skill is equal they will beat you, even if you are better your spec can still gimp you.

    Its like a mage bragging about being the best dps frost mage there is, its highly unlikely he is better then an arcane mage of the same skill level.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  8. #8
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    I would like to point out that the DPS spread between Arms and Fury is minimal. The greatest difference will depend on the particular fight. I know of several players who dual spec into both just for that reason.
    I'd also like to point out that Paragon has two warriors on their raid team; one specced Arms and one specced Fury. I think that says something about how useful both specs are, and how close they are in DPS output.

    Your personal maxed DPS is always going to be dependent on a combination of specific fight mechanics, gear optimization, how well your raid team works together, your personal ability, the spec your toon is in, and the (evil, evil) RNG.

    Bottom line.....play what you like. If your GM or RL wants you to change specs just because the "perfect fight" simulations say it's not the best spec anymore......go find someone else to play with.

  9. #9
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    Arms is not better than fury at the moment. If we're looking at real technical breakdowns they are supposed to be about 1k dps to each other but the truth of the matter is due to the nerfs and the general scaling fury is outpacing arms in Firelands gear. Also I can't think of a single fight where equal gear/skill level arms beats fury in firelands at the moment. This is based off of the last time I took a look at world of logs.

    Down to your reforging change your bracer enchant to 50 str or even crit and reforge the expertise back on to it, Lavawalker to boots. Change the reforging on your band of bees/main hand weapon to crit. Pick up the expertise off your offhand and ranged slot and boots if need be. Sorry don't have the time at the moment to reforge your gear to get you to perfect expertise numbers. Also change impatience and get the license to slay for jp, it's a far better trinket.

  10. #10
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    @Ortund

    1. For PvE TG > Arms > SMF for maximum potential, in best gear: http://www.simulationcraft.org/420/Raid_T12H.html But a chunk of that is the 397 mace off of H:Ragnaros

    2. If you look at all public parses, overall Arms and Fury are very close http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...t/#30000Though there is no distinction between SMF and TG, Fury is just Fury.

    3. It's going to be role dependent. Arms helping on adds in Beth will be top but if Arms isn't helping on adds, just focusing on the drone or up top, not sure it has an advantage. Same with Ry and little adds. In single target fights, looking at all public heroic raid parses, it looks like Fury is slightly ahead.

    4. All that is well and good... the reality is Arms and Fury are very close atm - and it's going to be the play style you are BEST in. If you can learn to play Arms equally as well as Fury, then it may be worth switching, depending on gear. If not, don't switch from Fury.

    5. Using Halifus as a fight to judge 'best' spec is stupid. It's AoE heavy (Firelands is not). Plus there's a stacking buff damage buffer based on the drakes dying. It's just a bad fight to compare with.

    6. Arms and Fury were both nerfed as part of 4.2. Just because pre-4.2 one was or the other was doesn't mean anything in 4.2.

    *****

    @pimpjuice - Heroics... do you mean dungeons? Or heroic raids? Dungeons are irrelevent if he's looking at spec for raiding.

    *****

    @Ortund take 2

    1. Best spec is NOT subjective. It can be predicted and then shown mathamtetically. However sometimes the difference is small enough that unless you are a in a top 100 world guild, the spec is functionally irrelevent if you choose the one you play best.

    Because players trend toward using the 'best' spec, it means specs that are slightly less good at the theorietical top won't show up as high in things like WoL and Raidbots because the best players have all chosen the 'best' spec, artificually depressing the top parses in other specs.

    2. Halifus take 2. His health was nerfed by what, 20% on normal? As were the drakes, I think. This means less potential for AoE damage (since things aren't alive as long to damage with all your AoE attacks) and Halifus dies sooner with the 150% buff increase (or did you mean on hard mode?) so you have less time pushing out damage with the biggest multiplier. Again. Halifus is a stupid fight to judge output on, especially if you're comparing it to pre 4.2.

    3. One thing to remember about best spec is that it really only matters for the best of the best, the players who hit the 99th percentile of possible output. If the players you're comparing only hit 90% of potential, it's going to be far more dependent on which one you are best in. Right now beastmaster is lowest for hunters I think. But a top hunter, with the same gear, would probably trounce 95% of all hunters out there using the 'best' spec. But he'd trounce his own output in the best spec. Just try to keep that in mind.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    3. It's going to be role dependent. Arms helping on adds in Beth will be top but if Arms isn't helping on adds, just focusing on the drone or up top, not sure it has an advantage. Same with Ry and little adds. In single target fights, looking at all public heroic raid parses, it looks like Fury is slightly ahead.

    4. All that is well and good... the reality is Arms and Fury are very close atm - and it's going to be the play style you are BEST in. If you can learn to play Arms equally as well as Fury, then it may be worth switching, depending on gear. If not, don't switch from Fury.

    ...

    If the players you're comparing only hit 90% of potential, it's going to be far more dependent on which one you are best in.
    What I hear you saying is that, while there is a mathematical, quantifiable difference between the specs (I'm not hearing anything about which spec is favored by this difference), the real determining factor in which will perform better is where it's used and the how skilled the player is.

    If that's the case, then I see no harm in sticking with Fury because I'm more of a "bash the boss" kinda player anyway. I'll take on the adds when I need to, but generally not if high aoe is going to be needed.

  12. #12
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    ya,i mean heroic dungeons

    also,anyone else had problems logging in today? cuz for a while i kept gettin this error trying to log in.oh and what is this paragon warrior they had on there team that was arms.cuz both of the top geared warriors in paragon are fury
    Last edited by PimpJuice4; 08-20-2011 at 04:58 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PimpJuice4 View Post
    ya,i mean heroic dungeons

    also,anyone else had problems logging in today? cuz for a while i kept gettin this error trying to log in.oh and what is this paragon warrior they had on there team that was arms.cuz both of the top geared warriors in paragon are fury
    Verdísha Currently specced into arms (has been for a while), and is dual arms/fury. Though that could just be for PvP.
    Last edited by Waarheid; 08-20-2011 at 06:30 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waarheid View Post
    Though that could just be for PvP.
    As he logged out in full pvp gear -.-
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  15. #15
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    Yes he did, but when you go to look at his fury spec on wow-heroes there is no gear, which makes me wonder if he may have been raiding as arms. With two DPS warriors in a raid group it would make sense to have one of each.

    Ether way, I switched from arms to fury at the end of BC and haven't looked back.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waarheid View Post
    Yes he did, but when you go to look at his fury spec on wow-heroes there is no gear, which makes me wonder if he may have been raiding as arms. With two DPS warriors in a raid group it would make sense to have one of each.

    Ether way, I switched from arms to fury at the end of BC and haven't looked back.
    He raids as fury as his parses on logs record him as such,

  17. #17
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    The last bit of content, BOT and BWD...arms was better for overall DPS, being that 80% of the encounters had multiple mobs...especially on heroic encounters. Being that Firelands only has maybe...1? Decent encounter where there are multiple mobs, which would be Beth...fury is pulling slightly ahead. It is a hard decision to make though, because as arms I can still pull 26 to 28k DPS, especially on a fight when I can sit there and go through a solid rotation, and arms does bring more to the table as far as buffs / debuffs goes. Personally I wouldn't mind trying SMF...thats all I was way back in vanilla *brings back horrid memories*

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truxx-pertise View Post
    The last bit of content, BOT and BWD...arms was better for overall DPS, being that 80% of the encounters had multiple mobs...especially on heroic encounters. Being that Firelands only has maybe...1? Decent encounter where there are multiple mobs, which would be Beth...fury is pulling slightly ahead. It is a hard decision to make though, because as arms I can still pull 26 to 28k DPS, especially on a fight when I can sit there and go through a solid rotation, and arms does bring more to the table as far as buffs / debuffs goes. Personally I wouldn't mind trying SMF...thats all I was way back in vanilla *brings back horrid memories*
    ya,i mean pve wise i only really plan on running like 5 man heroics.i might end up running stuff if that random raid finder i heard about in 4.3 isnt complete fail but seeing as how pugs cant even do 5 mans sucessful im not really having much faith in it

    but i dont know,i might end up tryin out fury again when i get colossus smash(im only lvl 77)but i dont know how thats gonna work out cuz i heard arms was the better pvp spec and i kinda wanna keep my prot spec

  19. #19
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    Arms just has more stable dps for pvp....fury back in 4.0.6 was a broken glass cannon...with stacking mastery...it was just broken imo.

  20. #20
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    ya i guess ill just stay arms/prot then


    i heard arms pulls less threat then fury anyway.although,with the buff to tank threat i dont know maybe fury threat isnt that bad nowadays

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