CTC or Dodge/Parry Ratio?

[Loganisis]

Not really its just that SS made up 21.3% of my total damage on my last log of Baleroc, Combustion made up a further 4.7% and DW made up 5.6%, so (ignoring DW/cruelty interplay) as Cruelty accounts for roughly a 6th of my SS/combust damage its worth 2.16% of my damage per talent point whereas DW is worth 1.86% of my total DPS per point.

Ah, combust would play into it. 20% bigger SS. I'm still slowly working on my DPS set, haven't started working on my VP tank gear.

The logs I'm seeing on WoL show Combust as about 4.2% with SS at 21.3% - so it's more like 1/5th (25%)... of course I was looking at the top logs, maybe they're cheesing it somehow (or just lucky string of SnB procs later in the fight for 1m hp vengence SS combusts overhwelming earlier SS?)

[Tengenstein]

Not really sure I understand the second paragraph, but if what you're getting at is that once baleroc massively inflates your health pool your vengeance also inflates i'm pretty sure that doesn't happen as a) there should be a pretty massive increase in DPS ovewr the fight and thats nor reflected on my logs and b) vengeance is capped at 10%base health+stamina, Baleroc doesn't buff your base health, nor does he buff your stamina.

though now i look at it i didn't have the bleed debuff up so DW hands down me thinks. I'll really have to sim it to be certain, which means i need to work out why simcraft's latest version is so damn unstable.

[kaydubbleu]

I never knew about Simcraft so I have now built it and run some sims to test out the dps difference, its as you say about 6%, which is enough for me to drop imp revenge and thunderstruck and go 3/3 shield spec and put 3/3 DW.

Its either this or drop GO which I am still not 100% I like the idea of because I do occasionally rely on that ranged silence and dont know what I would do in a situation where I wanted it in combat and didnt have it.. I will try to not use it and if I can get away with that I think I will put the points into Thunderstruck over imp revenge anyway as it seems to be the bigger boost to DPS.. I havent run the sims on anything other than a patchwerk style fight and have not run every combo yet to see but I will be using this tool a lot more now. Thanks for informing me!

[Gregasaurous]

It depends on the boss. Some fights i'm sitting there refreshing debuffs ect... and when not doing that keeping SS and HS on CD. In short, if it's a fight where you're going to be hit a lot (Baeleroc) and so generate a lot of rage, and in turn using Inner rage so you can spam HS to dump rage, DW is going to outdo cruelty by a mile. If however it's a moderate fight and you're jsut doing rotation i supose cruelty might come in a few steps ahead.

[Airowird]

Of all the optional synergies DW has, I'ld say it definately gets the most out of Incite, which means Greg is correct, Cruelty (especially with 2/2 set bonus setup) can beat DW without Bleed debuff and not enough HS spammage. But the threshold is actually relatively low and most fights will be atleast around that point, with certain fights definately favouring DW.

PS: If you don't have Heavy Repurcussions or don't SB on the cooldown, DW wins pretty easily.

[swelt]

Also note that in this raid tier, the one fight where tank DPS matters most is also the fight where deep wounds adds almost nothing. For reasons I don't understand, deep wounds does not benefit from 'imprinted' and contributes only a tiny contribution to your hatchling damage (and it's quite likely that you won't have a bleed debuff on your target). It's the reason I went back to including cruelty in my build.

[Gregasaurous]

b) vengeance is capped at 10%base health+stamina, Baleroc doesn't buff your base health, nor does he buff your stamina.

I missed this before otherwise i would have commented on it earlier. On to the point, are you sure this is correct? Because i seem to remember doing around 11k dps on that fight and the only way that could add up is if vengeance is stacking with my health. I'll have to look at the numbers when i down him next. Your logic is sound and i can't think of any reason why it shouldn't work that way but then again blizz sometimes neglects to write out exact mechanics of things. (Ex. i believe when i use my last stand vengeance recieves a slight buff as well due to my health being 30% higher.) Anyway, i should have a conformation on this by Sunday night.

Also note that in this raid tier, the one fight where tank DPS matters most is also the fight where deep wounds adds almost nothing. For reasons I don't understand, deep wounds does not benefit from 'imprinted' and contributes only a tiny contribution to your hatchling damage (and it's quite likely that you won't have a bleed debuff on your target). It's the reason I went back to including cruelty in my build.

Really? I did not know that. I think i might have to respec every time i do that fight if that's the case lol.

[Tengenstein]

Yeah Deep wounds are unaffected by the Fixate Buff. As to the vengeance thing, yeah I am pretty sure about it, in game tooltips say it's capped at 10% of your health, however it wasn't soon before the theorycrafters caught that that one was a porky. As to your 11k dps on Baleroc, thats not particularily odd. I do 11k on baleroc, I also do 12.5k on Shannox, 15k on Staghelm, neither of the latter buff my HP. Last stand probably buffs vengeance by buffing your base health by 30%. though tbh i never really was paying attention to my vengeace at the points where i had to pop last stand.

[Gregasaurous]

Well i'm definitely going to have to look into this now, my dps doesn't usually ever go that high to my knowledge.