I don't know how it is now, but when I levelled my druid a couple of months back swipe generated next to zero threat due to doing about 100 damage at level 50+, it was more efficient to tab through the pack and use glyphed maul and mangle.Originally Posted by Gokusan
Yes that's correct. You would upgrade to maul and mangle but until then swipe is better for gathering mobs. The original question was if ae threat was an issue at low lvls now because he lvled up during wrath. If there was good threat abilities before you get thrash at 81. I was just saying the first one you acquire.
play whatever you like more because if you choose pally because the "best" tank vary from patch to patch; ctc will probably be nerf soon and so on.
As others have said, choose the tank class you prefer playing. I have tried all of them save the Death Knight (outside of 5-mans, at least), and I enjoy all of them, but I only play my Warrior these days.
風林火山陰雷
ಠ ,ಠ
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain - it's time to roll the dice
I think pallys are getting too much credit/a bad rap. I understand that in later content that they are considered the better of the tanks, but as it has been said in a blue post Druid tanks are the best passively good tank there is because of armor and dodge. Yes they cant cap out and be unhittable at the moment but all tanks will reach that point which is why i believe they wouldn't release another tier. We can all agree that a sword and board tank is going to have better avoidance/mitigation the thing is at what expense. Right now in all 378 gear I still have to use 2 mastery trinkets to ctc cap and that is chopping about 10k off my hp. Im not saying thats a huge deal but I consider myself pretty geared so up coming pally tanks cant just cap right away and be the "best" tank. We all have to min max our gear for the performance we want and personally I think there is no one stand out tank that beats all. Pallys do seem to have a one up after a bit of struggle and math with their toon and proper professions but you have to do a lot of work first. Its not just bam im amazing.
All that being said as well a known fact that DKs take massive spike dmg especially if they aren't good at their ds rotations. Also in a blue post. So if i was going to look for anything it would be a rotation change in druids and a buff to DKs. I think they have pallys working exactly how they want to and only have interest in making their rotation more dynamic.
As everyone else said go with what you like but ill add stay away from Dks for a while LOL ;P
Goku, you are twisting the current situation. When your stuck between 2-3 great mastery trinkets and 1 bad stam there is not really much choice, so there would not be an "expense" to it.
Moonwell trink (510 stam) is arguably the best on use trinket there is for a tank. If it didn't require you to stand still it would be 100% the best. There is no other than the Beth trinket that is actually a mastery tank trinket. The Essence is very nice because of the added mastery but I have noticed that even when i use the 1700 str (459 parry) I don't actually see much of a change to incoming damage making it purely used to increase my block and a nice additive to dps for Alys. All that we are left with after that is Stay of Ex. Dodge that you can reforge again with a use that I haven't seen any tank use. I have actually been testing this because it helps even out my parry and dodge as well as the is a small difference in incoming damg but its worthless on Baleroc (and most other High dmg fights aka all heroics just an opinion). Also as the lowest HP of all the tank classes Hp is not something we should take lightly.
All of that being said I think you missed my point. I was just saying that it takes effort to cap and its not something that you can just be good at immediately. I was just speaking on the behalf that pallys are too over powered and easy to play.
SoE actually has a bug on Baleroc. Apparently it gets all screwy if you use it to absorb a DecBlade and kills you.
I am using the Scales of Life and swapping between Essence of Eternal flame and the baradin trinket depending on the boss. I use Heart of rage (reforged to mastery) and the Essence at majordomo and Alysrazor heroic (block cap with 22 expertise and 3% hit is fun, especially when the extra strength lines up and you crit for nearly 40k with CS or 100k with ShoR).
Plus I am trying to bleed off mastery, so using two mastery trinkets does not come into question (I reforged my tier helm's expertise to mastery instead of reforging the parry and am at 102.7ish)
I dislike the Vial because it has that no movement requirement. It may be great for Baleroc and Beth'tilac, but on Shannox, Rhyolith, Alysrazor, Majordomo and Rag I can't guarantee that I will be in the same position for 20 seconds (I am very sure I won't be on Shannox, Alysrazor, Majordomo and Rag) so the dodge rating would not be active on me. Then I might as well have Scales of Life, which is a healthstone every 60 seconds.
Last edited by Fetzie; 09-06-2011 at 02:21 AM.
Totally agree, I'm sitting at about 101.7 with scales on right now and with buffs that basically caps me so i rotated Scales and Essence with occasional use of the SoE, I haven't tried using another dps trink for HAly Ill give it a shot this week. I like the idea. I haven't actually farmed the Baradin trink shame on me I know, but will agree its a very useful tool. Basiclly I can hit about 101.7 102.5 and 103.5 depending on my trink. I am as well looking to purge some mastery but not having tier shoulders or helm of blazing is making that transition rough. My parry and dodge stay around 15% this way too.
Last edited by Gokusan; 09-06-2011 at 09:12 AM.
Moonwell is bad, "if" clause is laughable. It does shit all on both stand still fights we have.
Essense is situational, where its good - its good. Not a clue how you think you'd empirically "notice" the value of 350 parry rating, but ok.
Stay of exec is a gimped version of TB. Perhaps take some time to grind out the TB trinket before posting judgements on the "expense" of mastery trinkets, its only the single best piece of tanking gear in this expenasion after all.
Pyrea, bleed your mastery into gems and flask. Trinkets aren't meant for this.
Not sure what you mean by both standstill fights unless you tank top for Beth (I guess you don't move a lot for Domo) but again the points that you are forced to stand still for 20 seconds if you want the buff. Bale is the only true stand still fight in the instance.
For a prot pally that most likely has DP glyphed we don't need the TB trink on top of having the spindle. The use of stay was simply to balance in some dodge I don't use it at all anymore. Also 350 parry is roughly 1.5% parry over 15% so if you used WoL you could easily look and see if there's a difference. Also in the case of reforging the trinket there's more mastery = more dodge or what ever stat you chose. I think your being a bit over the top with your comment its obvious that you can't just notice 1% parry.
I think the point here is a lot of the trinkets out right now are very situational. One could easily argue that the TB is garbage on most fights other than Bale or other fights you take massive spell damage on. Again every tank knows not getting hit is better than mitigating a hit any day. Also saying that you should use flasks for mastery is the same as using trinkets for mastery and using guild flasks for stam. We are talking 1k hp loss at best which isn't going to make or break any fight.
Again to stick with the theme its all a preference in the end and choose which ever tanking class you want because there is 100 different ways to do everything.
This entire paragraph is blasphemy from the start to finish. Mitigating spell dmg spikes and "smoothing melee dmg" over "not getting hit" has been the theme for a year now. Esp so once you reach block cap. Saying "dw its only 1k hp" is just lol.
Last edited by kopcap; 09-19-2011 at 09:22 PM.
If you look at the difference between 510 and 450 stam its 60 stam plus the % from all plate and being a tank is about 1k hp. The point im making is that if you were to use a trinket with stam vs one with mastery or stam flask vs mastery elixir is about the same. You actually gain more mastery and can reforge it for about 1k hp loss.
The use from the TB trink is resist which only negates magic aka why I said that one COULD argue, not that it is a fact. If you are ctc cap you are all ready smoothing as much physical dmg income as you can so you would focus on avoidance and if you have DP glyphed you take 40% less magic while its up anyway. You clearly cant comprehend very well and I'm not going to bicker with you any further. This is a thread about picking a tank class not a pally thread.
So again Ill end with pick what ever tank you want. Cause as we can see theres 100 ways to do it.
The only point your making is you don't care about getting the full potential from your class.
After CTC you don't focus on aviodance. You focus on magic dmg. This means picking the right trinkets and stacking stamina.
After full CTC you reforge mastery to avoidance and gem stamina instead of mastery.
<3
Ps Spindle, Brawlers (shouldn't be a 365 lol) my new fav combo
Comic San just to mess with everyone.........
The best tank class for YOU is the one that you understand best and are the most confident playing.
Honestly, that's the best advice I can give to you. If you try Dk and it just feels wrong to you, don't screw around and force yourself to play it as you'll hate playing it every second, and it'll hold you back from doing the best you can. All tanks have encounters that they are better suited for, but all can run the content in some way, shape, or form.
Take my buddy Nate for example. Awesome pally tank. Just a rockstar and able to do some insane stuff. Put him behind the wheel of his DK and suddenly, it's a new ballgame. I've had people ask if he's new to WoW when playing his DK. lol Me, I can get with my Dk and be fine right out the gate. Warrior, I have to warm up a little to get in the flow of it. Druid, though I enjoy it, it always feels a bit "weird" to me. Pally, I can rock just fine, but again, it ends up feeling odd to me and I'll make mistakes while pally tanking that I NEVER make with my DK or warrior.
So, my suggestion to you.....
Try each. See which feels the most intuitive to you. Give them a real go and see which one you have fun playing and really have a good feel for. Run with friends and ask them after about 1-2 weeks which one THEY think you do a great job on. Hit up your healer and ask them which one THEY think you do best on.
No one tanks in a void.........
What he said.....
Unless you're a DK or druid.
DK..... most recommend reforging to mastery and gemming for mastery/stam. My experience.... depends on your goal. As a DK, I aim for flying with balance, and try to tailor myself to a fight with trinkets. There's a point though honestly, where chasing avoidance is kinda pointless. There's right now an EXCELLENT write up from Riggnaros on EJ concerning playing a DK at the moment.
http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t125290-...x/#post1984616
It's probably one of the most complete discussions regarding DK tanking that I've read (aside from Satorri). That post from Riggnaros has me re-evaluating what I do as a DK and going back to the drawing board to push the envelope again and improve myself.
Druids..... All I can say is stam, agiliy, mastery, dodge! Bears benefit greatly from extra stam. Just how they're made. Bears also get good benefit from mastery and dodge. If you equip a parry trink.... just slap yourself. I run my druid in a "hybrid" kitteh/bear kind of spec, just to be clear though. Works well enough for 5 mans, but I'd reconsider the build for raiding.
No one tanks in a void.........
Druids..... All I can say is stam, agiliy, mastery, dodge! Bears benefit greatly from extra stam. Just how they're made. Bears also get good benefit from mastery and dodge. If you equip a parry trink.... just slap yourself. I run my druid in a "hybrid" kitteh/bear kind of spec, just to be clear though. Works well enough for 5 mans, but I'd reconsider the build for raiding.
Ew, Stamina.
Well you want a certain amount of stamina to survive those tripple hits + magical burst occuring every so often. But i'd gear/gem for mass agility and swap trinkets/flasks (stamina and agility ones) accordingly to the boss fight, easily adding a 25k buffer when it's really needed without messing with your regular play.
This get's even more crazy with 391 gear, sitting at ~ +7% physical damage reduction via armor on top of 18% physical damage reduction via talent (over 10% via stance) and 24% damage reduction versus magical damage via talents. But all that on top of a high avoidance value is only to counter the 30% permablock paladin and warrior can reach.
Last edited by klausi; 10-01-2011 at 07:58 AM.
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