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Thread: so arms pve rotation single target?

  1. #1
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    so arms pve rotation single target?

    apparently ive heard bladestorm is a dps loss when you use it single target.and ive always used it

    like for example,my usual rotation on a boss would be like

    rend,thunderclap(i have 2 points in blood and thunder)mortal strike,overpower whenever taste for blood procs,slam and then bladestorm

    but am i gimping my dps if im using bladestorm single target.i mean,if its a fight with a phase like maloriak adds id wait until the adds come out and then bladestorm but if its not i usually just bladestorm at the end of my rotation

    as far as dps goes,im only like lvl 74 so im more concerned about getting to 85 then i am worrying about dps but i was just wondering if thats a pretty good rotation or am i doing something wrong with using bladestorm in my normal single target rotation.i recently macro'd blood fury(im a orc)and recklessness to bladestorm also.oh ya,and i dont stance dance eather.even with macros i didnt like it(which i didnt like stance dancing in pvp eather)

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by PimpJuice4 View Post
    but am i gimping my dps if im using bladestorm single target.
    yes, pretty much any other button you hit will do more single target damage than bladestorm.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    yes, pretty much any other button you hit will do more single target damage than bladestorm.
    so would it be better if i just followed the rotation i listed.only used bladestorm when theres a add phase(like maloriak)instead of like at the end of the rotation

    im assuming after i did slam just restarting the rotation but i know the rotation listed on tankspots arms warrior guide doesnt have thunderclap listed all it says is rend,mortal strike,overpower,slam

  4. #4
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    You shouldn't be using Tclap for single target dps. Use Colossus Smash before Mortal Strike when you can.

  5. #5
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    i think the guide is pretty up to date. ignoring cooldowns, the basics are:
    -rend (should only have to do this once)
    -MS on cooldown
    -CS whenever it's up, but DON'T overwrite the debuff
    -OP within 6s of TfB proc
    -slam

  6. #6
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    i think OP has priority on MS.

    I think MS has priority under only 2 scenarios
    1) the debuff is about to fall off (30% buff)
    2) your debuff isn't at 3 stacks yet

    otherwise OP i think on avg (because of high crit rate) takes priority over MS almost always after that. This is especially true if you are not expertise dodge capped, since you don't want a tfb proc to get wasted on an already lit up overpower because of a dodge.

    so it's more like

    -rend (only do this once)
    -MS if it's 30% buff is about to fall off or isn't at 3 stacks yet
    -CS if you don't have it already debuffed
    -OP
    -MS regular (no OP, no CS)
    -Slam
    -
    -
    -
    -HS if you have rage or are deadly calming.

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  7. #7
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    Well there's a lot of leeway for playing arms right now. You can stay stancedance and try getting the most out of it but if you struggle once you can fall behind, sit in berserker stance all day and just spam MS & Slam, switch to 'zerker only for the execute range or stay in battle stance all fight long. Just have a quick glance at Baleroc fights to get an idea of what's possible. Regarding expertise cap or not: haven't seen a ranked warrior without it in a while. Simming (with cap) shows delaying MS for OP (even if it's more damage per execute and has a higher critrate - thus more deep wounds damage) slightly behind (less then 3%).

  8. #8
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    ya,i picked my spec looking at worldoflogs 25 man heroic baleroc.i just picked the spec of whoever was the top dps


    and i tried switching stances,but even with macros i hated it(which that was one of the things i also hated as arms pvp back in the days when you stance danced).but i dont know,i recently spec'd back fury to give it and try again but i dont know,ive heard for heroics arms is better anyway and i know the playstyle is alot like a combat rogue.which ive played a combat rogue on the ptr(was lvl 80 though)and i didnt really like the playstyle
    Last edited by PimpJuice4; 08-10-2011 at 08:59 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    i think OP has priority on MS.

    I think MS has priority under only 2 scenarios
    1) the debuff is about to fall off (30% buff)
    2) your debuff isn't at 3 stacks yet

    otherwise OP i think on avg (because of high crit rate) takes priority over MS almost always after that. This is especially true if you are not expertise dodge capped, since you don't want a tfb proc to get wasted on an already lit up overpower because of a dodge.
    if you get a dodge proc, for sure i agree with you. OP hits the hardest and costs the least rage, so it's tops.

    once expertise capped (or very close to it), i think things change. and with some T12 gear, expertise is a lot more available than in the past. each of our main 3 attacks has a unique mechanic:
    -slam is always hanging around and available.
    -OP must be used within 5 seconds, but can be used anytime within that 5 seconds without changing the total OP over the course of a fight.
    -MS is only available every 4.5seconds, so any delay in using it directly results in fewer MS over the course of a fight.

    if both MS and OP and available, the decision boils down to whether or not you're going to lose an OP. if it's been only <3 seconds since TfB proc'd, you should use the MS and then OP and you won't lose any OP's.

    what happens if you always prioritize OP > MS is you end up with the same number of OP, but because you push more MS back you have fewer MS overall. this means more of your potential MS got replaced with slam. and since MS is much better than slam, that's a bad thing.

    regarding expertise cap: simulations in my gear show crit to be a far better stat than expertise, and i'm a few points short of cap still. surprisingly (to me), mastery sims pretty weak - about the same or slightly worse than haste.

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    I'm not sure if i am repeating what others have said, this is my general understanding of arms:

    As far as rotations go on single target I will always:

    -Charge
    -Rend
    -CS
    -MS *juggernaut* buff from charge
    -OP
    *now that MS and OP are both on CD I will usually have enough time to throw two Slams in the rotation*
    After slam combine MS + HS
    From there the Rotation looks like
    -MS
    -Slam, Slam
    -OP
    Keeping CS on CD but never overlapping the debuff

    As far as Gearing goes, Crit and Mastery are your best friends. Since fury got the 40% to auto attack damage, TG became a lot more appealing.
    My current mastery is at 14.65, which gives me a 32% chance to trigger another auto attack, which generally makes up for around 9% of my total dps. As far as crit goes, everyone knows that at the beginning of every expac....stats are generally lower than they will be towards the end of the expac. Currently I have...raid buffed keep in mind 22.81%.

    Normal stats still apply 8% hit...although I've done some raids with 7 and couldn't tell a difference.
    Expertise at 26....running 25 currently just because of gear and I will never Gem for expertise...always run 40 STR gems, if the socket bonus is STR then go STR and mastery / crit. Anything really in that combination.

    If there is anything else I left out, please correct me or any questions about rotations / reforging just ask.
    Last edited by Truxx-pertise; 08-23-2011 at 10:38 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truxx-pertise View Post
    If there is anything else I left out, please correct me
    Colussus Smash perhaps?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Colussus Smash perhaps?
    *sigh* lol fixed...what I get for trying to multi task

  13. #13
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    sort of. i have quite a few subtle differences from your rotation (in blue).

    Quote Originally Posted by Truxx-pertise View Post
    I'm not sure if i am repeating what others have said, this is my general understanding of arms:

    As far as rotations go on single target I will always:
    -battle shout 1min before fight if nobody else brings the buff
    -heroic throw w/ glyph to apply sunder

    -Charge
    -Rend (you can use DC about here to ensure max rage when it's time for cooldowns)
    -CS (too early, imo - need more buffage)
    -MS *juggernaut* buff from charge
    -OP
    *now that MS and OP are both on CD I will usually have enough time to throw two Slams in the rotation*
    you won't have time for two slams since MS is 4.5s CD, so one slam here
    After slam combine MS + HS (never plan HS as part of your rotation outside DC; use it at 70+ rage)
    *now you have 2x slaughter buff built up, so it's time to start using cooldowns*
    -battle shout
    -CS
    -recklessness/trinket/MS

    From there the Rotation looks like
    -MS
    -Slam, Slam (back-to-back slams are quite rare, as you only have 2 GCD between MS)
    -OP (OP never follows a spot in the rotation; it simply must be used within 5s of TfB proc
    Keeping CS on CD but never overlapping the debuff
    -battle shout w/e you don't have enough rage for any attacks

    As far as Gearing goes, Crit and Mastery are your best friends. (crit yes, mastery no)
    Since fury got the 40% to auto attack damage, TG became a lot more appealing.
    My current mastery is at 14.65, which gives me a 32% chance to trigger another auto attack, which generally makes up for around 9% of my total dps. As far as crit goes, everyone knows that at the beginning of every expac....stats are generally lower than they will be towards the end of the expac. Currently I have...raid buffed keep in mind 22.81%.

    Normal stats still apply 8% hit...although I've done some raids with 7 and couldn't tell a difference. (the difference is you will miss 1% of your attacks, which is significant over the course of a fight)
    Expertise at 26 (it's more ok to be under expertise cap than hit cap)....running 25 currently just because of gear and I will never Gem for expertise...always run 40 STR gems, if the socket bonus is STR then go STR and mastery (no) / crit (yes). Anything really in that combination. you can use STR/HIT gems for blue sockets with STR bonus.

    If there is anything else I left out, please correct me or any questions about rotations / reforging just ask.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    sort of. i have quite a few subtle differences from your rotation (in blue).
    Extra swing is great for rage gain lol...and having it contribute 10% of our dps that is quite a significant gain.

  15. #15
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    Extra swing is a Yellow Attack and thus does not generate any rage.

    !!knapkin math alert!!

    as to 10% being significant, well it really isn't. 179 rating increases Crit by 1% gives you a 1% chance to deal double damage with Everything, or it increases your mastery by 1 increasing the chance to swing twice by 2.2%.

    How much of your damage is melee? lets say 30% of your damage is. if we increase our mastery by 1 (179 rating) we increase he have am additional 2.2% chance to double our melee atacks, so 2.2% increase to 30% of our damage. or a total damage increase of 0.66%

    if we put that rating in as crit we increase 100% of our damage by 1% thats a straight 1% damage increase.

    Now there are a few factors that affect this that i've left out(deep wounds, baseline crit and mastery), but really our melee wswings make up a small portion of our damage and that hurts mastery.

  16. #16
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    Crit is by far the base stat, but as a secondary...mastery is the wise choice. Haste? horrible for arms warriors...and stacking hit is just stupid

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truxx-pertise View Post
    Extra swing is great for rage gain lol...and having it contribute 10% of our dps that is quite a significant gain.
    i never really have any issues with rage.im kinda thinkin about tryin out fury again when i get colossus smash but i dont know.i recently spec'd prot and im findin tanking more enjoyable then when i tanked before(was before the buff to threat and stuff)so i dont know,cuz i like pvp so i went arms but it kinda sucks cuz i wanna try out fury again to
    Last edited by PimpJuice4; 08-25-2011 at 11:13 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truxx-pertise View Post
    Crit is by far the base stat, but as a secondary...mastery is the wise choice. Haste? horrible for arms warriors...and stacking hit is just stupid
    there's no such thing as stacking hit when you don't dual-wield. mastery and haste are just not that good for arms; you stack crit and nothing else.

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