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Thread: Needing advice for starting guild discussion :2 10mans or a 25man

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1

    Needing advice for starting guild discussion :2 10mans or a 25man

    Hi, I am a newly promoted elite member of a casual raiding guild that has been around since Burning Crusade. The guild kind of disappeared after the gm stopped playing wow due to real life occurrences. Now that the gm is back, all of the old members have flocked back bringing their friends with them. I followed my boyfriend (who raided with the guild back in bc) to the guild sometime in the middle of tier 11. I've only played wow since the release of cata and I would first like to say that I really enjoy dk/bear tanking. Our guild currently has 2 10m groups, both of which are progressing in Firelands. I would say that 90%+ of our players are very good in both groups. Both 10man groups progress, while still having a lot of fun.

    The problem began shortly after the release of Firelands, when the pally tank/healer in the main group stopped raiding suddenly without really telling anyone in the group. Additionally, it seems clear that he has no intention of coming back.This has left raid spots empty in the main group. Previously, my dk was MT of the other group, only filing in for the main group when it didn't conflict with the second group's progression. When both groups were now in need of a tank, I began gearing my druid for raid tanking and learning my rotation (I'd leveled my druid as resto) because I didn't want the second group to miss out on Firelands because my main was saved to a 2/7 or 3/7. To fill the healing spot my boyfriend has been healing on his holy pally with the first group and raid leading on his warlock in the 2nd group. Additionally, we recently recruited a new tank/dps for our second group and he is raiding on his hunter for the main group to fill a dps spot, and on his dk to tank for us in the second group. So we really have 3 people raiding 5 nights a week between both raid groups. This is ok for a short while, but cannot continue for that long.

    Our current raid comps:
    Main group:
    2 dk tanks (one of which is my main)
    warrior dps
    rogue
    mage
    2 hunters (one of which is an alt from a tank in the 2nd group)
    holy priest
    resto druid
    holy pally (alt of 2nd raid group's raid leader)

    2nd group:
    dk tank
    bear tank (my alt)
    dk dps
    mage
    2 warlocks (one of which is raid leader)
    spriest
    resto shaman
    holy priest
    holy pally

    We really only have 4 characters capable of tanking Firelands content among 3 people. At least 2 of us raiding for both groups are quickly getting tired of raiding 5 nights a week. We are a casual raiding guild that would like for each group to raid 3 nights a week. This is impossible at this time because both groups are dependent on me for a tank and my boyfriend to heal/dps. Our gm seems to be leaning toward forming a 25m. I personally don't mind raiding in a 25m, we just need to decide soon so that we can decide what we need to recruit. After finding everyone that wants/ can raid Firelands content within the guild already, I've found that we'll need 1 tank, a good dps, and a pally/shaman healer for 2 10m groups. If we go to 25 m we'll need to recruit 3-4 good dps. No one really wants to talk about recruiting a new tank and healer for the guild or talk about how long the 3 of us can raid for both groups. I really enjoy raiding with both groups and have gotten close to the people in both , I just can't continue tanking for both groups indefinitely. Are there any suggestions for the best way to discuss this problem with the guild?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2
    My guild tried running two 10 mans in burning crusade, particularly in Ulduar and early ICC. From the experience we got from it you'd need to consider the following before going down the two 10 man groups option.

    1) Do you allow people to raid with either group, depending on the situation, or do you restrict people to one or the other. This is a factor in the event of holidays etc where you can't make 2 full groups, or perhaps both are short. If handled incorrectly one group may feel their players are being poached for the other, or alternatively there may be frustration at neither group raiding instead of pooling resources depending upon how you approach it.

    2) Group naming, I strongly recommend against 1,2; A,B or anything that may leave one group feeling theyre inferior. This can cause resentment in the second group, I'd recommend some ranking neutral names using colors, seasons or something that doesnt infer that one is in some way superior to the other.

    3) Personnel, you need at least 4 tanks, 6 helaers and 2 good raid leaders for the two 10 mans approach. thats 1-2 more good tanks needed compared to say a 25 man situation.

    4) Group balance, do you split your groups so that you have a mix of officers, talented and maybe lesser geared/experienced in both, or do you put your strongest group (possibly the majority of officers too) in one, meaning that one group will be undoubtedly more successful than if youd split evenly, while the other will struggle to a greater degree. Again, if you go with a strong/weaker option this can cause resentment in the latter group, especially if they fall several boss kills are behind, however, diluting ability across both groups will result in a lesser degree of success overall. An issue with the strong group option from past experience is that assurances that after a while the stornger geared will be able to pull the others up to level by their superior dps/healing do not work because oftentimes those geared up people suddenly get "bored of raiding", "need a break", are "burnt out", or even leave guild once they've geared themselves up to a point beyond which its hard to improve and the prospect is for less successful raiding with lower geareds lies ahead. This is just human nature unfortunately. It can, and will happen.

    I'm not saying don't give 2 10 mans a go, it could certainly work for you. You'll just need to take a fair few additional factors into consideration, there will be greater potential for drama and you'll still need a decent sized pool of players to be able to run both groups regularly.

    Good luck whichever way you go!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    471
    It seems like you have recruiting issues. You are going to burn out if you are forced to do 2 10 mans each week. I can see doing an alt run on 1-2 nights as an option if you are bored, but having no choice but to do 5 nights a week is a killer. It's time to recruit some new members. You can find good players of any role if you try. My guild has a web site and we have all applicants apply online. If we like their application they start off in raids at an "initiate" status. After a few weeks we bump them to raider status with all its perks. Best of luck to you.

    Bung

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