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Thread: Threat drop in Intervene

  1. #1
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    Threat drop in Intervene

    Anyone knows if there a way to prevent Intervene from dropping threat, i.e. using an "!" symbol or something similar?

  2. #2
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    As far as I know, there is no way to remove a portion of an ability other than through Glyphs.
    Unfortunately for you, no glyph exists for this scenario you are asking about.

    Aslo, the "!" symbol in macros only prevents casts from being toggled off (e.g. the Heroic Leap targetting) and has no other syntax functions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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  3. #3
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    This is one of the reasons i dislike the safeguard talent. if Intervene just was a 30% damage reduction that would be awesome, the problem is that not only does it do that, it drops their threat and i take the next attack(s) and are physically moved over there, any of the four individual things are great, but all 4 at once?

    On beth i'd love to be able to give the other tank an external CD, but wile i'm asploding that ain't happening and i certainly don't want to increase my damage taken by eating the next 1-2 attack for him, nor do i want to pull aggor by lopping 10% of his off. THe ability does too many things at once. It's a perfect candidate for the "Your X no longer does Y, but does Z instead" glyphs, but we just don't seem to get them.

  4. #4
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    But that would be ridiculously OP and lead to raid groups wanting pairs of protection warriors for everything.

  5. #5
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    How so?

    Intervene to break roots and snares > Personal Hand of freedom
    Intervene to reduce a players threat > Hand of salvation
    Intervene to Take the next hit at the target > Hand of sacrafice

    why would it be OP to be able to do one of these things without doing all the other things? the ability is clumbsy mish mash it tries to do too many things and end up compromising it's ability to do most of them. I can't use Safeguard on another tank without potentially screwing over the taunt swaps, I can't use safeguard on the DPS/Healer's withought spinning the boss and cleaving half of them to

  6. #6
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    Intervene should transfer the threat to your Vigilance target if you have any.
    That should solve half the problem
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
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  7. #7
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    Any fight with tank swaps, take Ragnaros, whichever warrior wasn't tanking could just safeguard-intervene at will. That's a 30% damage reduction every 30 seconds. If you wanted intervene without the threat reduction, you'd have to remove safeguard from the game. Almost any 'spike damage on tank' elements to encounters would start having 2 strategies: 1 to do it properly, 1 to do it with 2 warriors intervening each other.

  8. #8
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    I used my intervene's threat reduction all the time during heroic Chim to assure that our battlerezzer (boomkinn) was below the rogues who could go dodge-tarded and the shaman who could pop.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    Any fight with tank swaps, take Ragnaros, whichever warrior wasn't tanking could just safeguard-intervene at will. That's a 30% damage reduction every 30 seconds. If you wanted intervene without the threat reduction, you'd have to remove safeguard from the game.
    Fine by me. A talent I can't use anyway as it decimates my co tanks Threat at present and drops the boss straight back at me

    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    Almost any 'spike damage on tank' elements to encounters would start having 2 strategies: 1 to do it properly, 1 to do it with 2 warriors intervening each other.
    while is see where you're coming from, i don't agree with the logic, with enough Tricks/MDs/Fades Omen watching you can already do strategy 2, so Safeguard is already an OP ability thats only balanced by the fact it's attached to some god awful penalty via a clunky ability, i don't call that balanced i call that piss poor design. Proper balancing would balance the uptime against the effectiveness, on some fights like shannox i can safeguard the main tank almost at will becuase everyone starts out on the dogs. but on a fight like Nef its nigh impossible to use it as i can only ever go near the other tank during transitions with out buffing ony or refueling the adds, but i can use it on the healer to eat all her crackles? how is that balanced?

    Can many warriors say they use intervene as it was intended to be used or for the most part do they throw all the wierd ass stuff it does away and just use it as way to get somewhere when charge, intercept and heroic leap are unavailable?

    Intervene just does too much stuff at once.

  10. #10
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    The point about intervene is that it's intended to help tanks save non-tanks from getting squished. You can use it pre-emptively if you see dps getting close to the top of the threat meter, or you can use it after they've already pulled threat. In that regard, I think it works pretty well and I've certainly used it 'as intended' plenty of times. The fact that it's also one more tool in the warriors mobility toolkit is also nice, but a side effect rather than the intended usage.

    It is not designed for tanks to intervene other tanks, which is what you are asking for. The threat drop makes total sense in the intended use, but it's clearly detrimental to use it on another tank. In spite of this, since safeguard was introduced it certainly has been used in this way, and it's often a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but you need to do it carefully. Back when the lich king was a big deal, it was quite common to use safeguard intervenes to mitigate soul reaper. At heroic nef, I believe quite a few people had a warrior tank intervening the kiting tank on crackles. If you changed intervene such that it didn't drop threat it would a) make it worse at it's intended function and b) make it better than it should be as a damage reduction cooldown on tanks.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    The point about intervene is that it's intended to help tanks save non-tanks from getting squished. You can use it pre-emptively if you see dps getting close to the top of the threat meter,
    Turning bosses that cleave or have a frontal cane into the raid is bad

    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    or you can use it after they've already pulled threat. In that regard, I think it works pretty well and I've certainly used it 'as intended' plenty of times. The fact that it's also one more tool in the warriors mobility toolkit is also nice, but a side effect rather than the intended usage.
    Taunt's better, much better, and you don't need to repostion


    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    It is not designed for tanks to intervene other tanks, which is what you are asking for.
    see above point about how on some fights it can be used on other tanks alot, making this ability "broken"

    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    The threat drop makes total sense in the intended use, but it's clearly detrimental to use it on another tank. In spite of this, since safeguard was introduced it certainly has been used in this way, and it's often a perfectly acceptable thing to do, but you need to do it carefully. Back when the lich king was a big deal, it was quite common to use safeguard intervenes to mitigate soul reaper. At heroic nef, I believe quite a few people had a warrior tank intervening the kiting tank on crackles. If you changed intervene such that it didn't drop threat it would a) make it worse at it's intended function and b) make it better than it should be as a damage reduction cooldown on tanks.
    So already not being used as intended, see above point about being a crap way of balancing it. in regards to a)the point of a glyph is that it gives choice, you can not use and keep you intended function and those of us that want it or beleive to currently be a warrior tanks external CD can glyph it. in regards to b) you can half the duration of safeguard or whatever: thats proper balancing, adjusting the effectivness or uptime, not tying it to some clunky mechanics.
    Last edited by Tengenstein; 08-09-2011 at 06:35 AM.

  12. #12
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    The problem with that intent, swelt, is that it doesn't work.
    As it only prevents a melee hit, one would assume it's meant for when someone pulls aggro, at which point taunting first would be a better option. And should the taunt fail (as it can no longer miss), there is a 50/50 chance you'll be standing next to a ranged, messing up boss positioning or worse.... The ranged all get cleaved/breathed on because the boss is turned and you can't taunt to flip it around again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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  13. #13
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    Obviously you need to be careful using it on bosses that cleave or breathe. A decent tank knows which bosses cleave, a better tank would still be able to intervene over eager DPS safely by timing their intervene appropriately.

    Now I realise that mashing taunt has, since all bosses became tauntable and even more since taunt got changed to never miss, become the magic hammer of warrior tanks that works in most scenarios. I recognise that this undermines the value of intervene. Don't forget, if you take taunt out of the equation and have to get threat the hard way, the mobility component of intervene is significant, given that threat levels to pull are different for targets at range than for those in melee. Do you want to have no tool to handle untauntable targets?

    No matter whether you agree about the usefulness or not of Intervene in it's intended function, there seems to me to be little point in continuing to argue for it being a 30 second defensive cooldown on another tank. Blizzard aren't going to make it into that, why would they.

  14. #14
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    We can't even agree on it's intended function.

    Blizz gave us Safeguard so they Obviously Intended us to have a 30 second external CD, what we're asking is that doesn't ahve the clunky mechanics so we actually can use it.

  15. #15
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    I reckon I should stay in defensive stance for the duration of all fights since this is how Blizzard intended a protection warrior to be played.

  16. #16
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    No need to get petulant. I use safeguard during HC-Shannox on my healer during the spear. The intervene helps me move and the safeguard helps them live. I've used it at many points during T10 and T11 as well. Its a great talent and having an external CD is pretty awesome during plenty of fights. That said, for the most part, it's not intended to be used on another tank ... at least not in most normal tanking scenarios (there's are plenty though that you can use it, such as OT on Baeleroc or Alysrazor). In the end it's a situational talent that would be OP if you could use it on your fellow tank without restriction.
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  17. #17
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    Our of interest, what do you do to your healer on Shannox that an external CD helps him live? Is he disarming traps or something?

    Baleroc is the very reason that I posted this threat. Its very good on decimation but the threat drop makes it tricky to use.
    Last edited by kopcap; 08-09-2011 at 07:18 AM.

  18. #18
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    On shannox I'm the OT half a mile from the boss and when the spear is thrown I leap then intervene him to reduce the damage he takes from the spear explosion. It's not a big deal but it helps both move me and reduce damage on him. On Baeleroc the MT cannot intervene decimations but the OT sure can intervene nearly every flaming destruction (or whatever the fire swords are called) assuming the tank is good at TPS.

    edit: During normal shannox I also used intervene on the MT every spear after my dog would die. Not too useful for HC but a use is a use.
    RIP Stormrage Horde ('05 - '11). Turaylon Horde since 11/11 where there's actually people
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  19. #19
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    Spear explosion is 45k dmg on a roughly 45 second timer. Not sure how it can put anyone in danger unless they stand in it. Also not sure why you'd do it in this order, but if you leap and then intervene, healer should not even be in explosion's range. But try doing the other way around, its easier to avoid traps and gives more ground.

    MT can intervene Decimations on Baleroc, just need to time it right due to the threat drop. Hence the topic
    Last edited by kopcap; 08-09-2011 at 08:01 AM.

  20. #20
    Sorry for the dumb question (especially considering my group has killed Baleroc), but if I'm the MT during Baleroc and the OT taunts and takes the Decimation Blade, wouldn't you want to avoid taking the Decimation Blade strike? Or does it somehow reduce that dmg by 30% (talented) without actually hitting you for 90% of your massive HP pool?

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