Gone arcane - many questions

[mielikinna]

Not much changes for dps, except that trapping Rageface when his stacks get high and avoiding him for long enough that they drop is key. The rest is on the tanks doing the handoff so that their stacks don't get high. In many ways, it is simpler than having to kill rageface and riplimb.

[leethaxor]

Shannox heroic?

These few things can make your life amazing.
-Focus cast bar
-Marco that reads /cast [@focus] Arcane Blast
-setting rageface to focus.

Now you can see when he is raging and in one button you can 'normally' break it.

Also due to the fact that arcane breaks rage alot get the glyph of frost armor. And set up a macro to read
/castsequence mage armor, frost armor

then you can toggle armors in one button and still get decent (not totally fail) regen, while not getting your clothy face raped by a dog.

[mielikinna]

I'm not seeing why you would want glyph of frost armor. This encounter still has a dps check.

[leethaxor]

I'm not seeing why you would want glyph of frost armor. This encounter still has a dps check.

15% physical damage reduction helps to ensure you remain more healable as the dog gets more and more stacks. It can save your life, but it might not it depends how good your team at the execution of the fight.

I stopped on our third kill as we had the execution down pretty solid.

It also doesn't gimp your rotation as much your losing only about 1% mana regen which isn't horrible. And when your running to a trap its hard to cast.

[Jenkat]

Thanks for all this great advice on Shannox HC. Now let me see if I understand it all correctly as I will be doing it tommorrow.

When Rageface rages on me, then I switch from mage armor to frost armor (and back again when he no longer targets me)? Is that correctly understood? I was going to use Glyph of blink for running from Rageface - but if I use Glyph of frost armor, then I think I will use Glyph of evocation and Arcane Power as I normally do - leaving no place for the blink glyph. What three major glyphs would you recommend for this fight?

I'm going to make the target macro that you suggested. So do I understand correctly - that I dps the boss until Rageface rages on someone and then i use this macro and then continue dpsing the boss? Is that right?

I'm a bit nervous about kiting Rageface. So if you have any tips on how to do that effectively, I'd love to hear them. =)

[leethaxor]

The key to shannox heroic:
40 yards from frozen Rageface to anyone
boom Rageface will ALWAYS reset his debuff if this happens. You need to reset his debuff, or he will tear though your clothy robes like an angry tailor who just found out you slept with his wife. Then proceed to 'accidentally' your raid. YES! YOUR WHOLE RAID!
Yes, there is stuff for tanks to do, but that's for tanks. This is what you can control :P

When Rageface rages on me, then I switch from mage armor to frost armor (and back again when he no longer targets me)? Is that correctly understood?

After his facerage is broken, he will target the player who broke it and run at them, and fixate on you for a few seconds. He doesn't hit that hard if you keep reseting his debuff. But frost armor mages it easier on your healers.

I was going to use Glyph of blink for running from Rageface - but if I use Glyph of frost armor, then I think I will use Glyph of evocation and Arcane Power as I normally do - leaving no place for the blink glyph. What three major glyphs would you recommend for this fight?

AP, blink, frost armor (thats what I used). I've found evocation heal to be less and less needed as our healer don't really worry about mana unless we fight beth'tilac.

I'm going to make the target macro that you suggested. So do I understand correctly - that I dps the boss until Rageface rages on someone and then i use this macro and then continue dpsing the boss? Is that right?

Basically, well provided rageface is in range.

So if you have any tips on how to do that effectively, I'd love to hear them. =

-I would really suggest that you turn on dbm timer for warry so you know if you can trap him or not.
-Generally when you 'kite him' you want to make sure you avoid immo traps, and get into the freeze traps.
-Generally you want to nail every other trap, one for the tanks, one for you.
-When you blink you want to blink past the trap, so you are on one side, and he is on the other.
-Rage will always come in a straight line to you. So think of a line from you to him, that's how he will travel. So it allows you to plan his movement.

These sounds like no brainers, but they really help. Once you see he doesn't have warry, and there is a freeze trap between you him you can just stop paying attention to him and go back to dps'ing the boss.

[Jenkat]

Hi Leethaxor! I'm just so grateful that you bother to take the time to write all this so-called no-brainer stuff. Because it can really make a big difference to an inexperienced raider like me. =) Now I can go the the raid confident tonight and not go all into a panic like I ususally do.

I have a few more questions.
1. So what exactly is this warry?
2. Do you actively make an effort to stay in range of rageface? Or do you let other ppl take care of breaking his facerage if you are not in range?
3. Do you ever use invisibility to get away from rageface?
4. Do you ever use mana shield as well as the frost armor to reduce dmg? Could mana shield keep his stacks down?
5. What about mirror images? Could you use that if you are being ragefaced to reduce dmg?
6. Is there a dbm bar for facerage, so you can make sure you have 4 stacks of AB up to break it?

Ok, tell me if I'm becoming bothersome with too many questions.

[mielikinna]

Wary is a debuff on Rageface that he gets after he triggers a trap, making him immune to traps for its duration. If he's got wary up, he can't be trapped and you need to position him so he'll be trapped after this drops.
In my group we had 3 mages assigned to breaking facerage and tend to limit the area where our raid should be so its usually not hard to stay in range of him or to blink to it quickly.
Iceblock yes, invisibility, I haven't.
Good question, I'd use it to absorb a bit of damage but I don't know if it effects his stacks.
I believe they can but mine were always on CD.
I do now know about DBM, I use DXE. Facerage happens approximately every 30s though.

In general, if rageface's stacks aren't up, just stand there and take it, he won't hit that hard. If his stacks are up b/c of screwup, know where a trap is ahead of time and be ready to get there fast.

[Jenkat]

Thanks Mielikinna! Just in time for the raid tonight. I'll let you guys know how it went. I just hope that I do my job ok.

[leethaxor]

2. Do you actively make an effort to stay in range of rageface? Or do you let other ppl take care of breaking his facerage if you are not in range?

On 10man I don't stick to him like glue. I sorta just try to keep an eye on where he is, or notice him heroic leaping off my screen.

3. Do you ever use invisibility to get away from rageface?

Part of me wants to say I did this once on our progress night, I'm not 100% it will work.

4. Do you ever use mana shield as well as the frost armor to reduce dmg? Could mana shield keep his stacks down?

I've done it when we had real issues reseting him. Not for weeks.

5. What about mirror images? Could you use that if you are being ragefaced to reduce dmg?

When you are being faceraged you lose control of your character like you being CC'd. So you can't use mirror images. When he fixates on you mirrors don't change his target (if I remember correctly).

6. Is there a dbm bar for facerage, so you can make sure you have 4 stacks of AB up to break it?

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4...0711153851.jpg

@miel
And DXE is still updated? My buddy was in DX when they dissolved, I thought it wasn't being updated after that.

[mielikinna]

Yep, DXE is fully updated and maintained now.

[Jenkat]

Thanks Leethaxor! =)

Guess what? We downed Shannox HC on our first night of trying!!! =)

I even managed to trap Rageface the first time he raged me - I was so proud of myself: I screamed on ventrilo "Yay for me! I did it!". I guess that guys got kind of irritated by that cause they put our hunter on the task of breaking Rageface's facerage and left me on the boss the whole time. Except ofc when the hunter was targeted for facerage then I got to break it and kite Rageface. I did ok on the few times that I had to kite him. Thanks so much for all the advice. I would never have been able to do it without all the help from you guys!!! <3 <3 <3

Here is the log from our night of raiding. I'd love to hear any comments, you may have. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-94kv9kjd5p8rc13r/

I'll be back as soon as I know which HC we will be focusing on next. ;-)

[Jenkat]

Our raid leader announced that we will be doing Rhyolith as our next Firelands HC boss. So I'm off to see some videos and study tactics. I'll be back when I have some more questions. =) Any tips at all that you have for this encounter would be much appreciated.

[mielikinna]

Do not use mage armor! The knockback could knock obsidians into Rhyolith, and also could spread the fragments you are AoEing. Use mage ward on CD for the stomps. Dodge lines by a healthy margin as they don't exactly move straight.

[leethaxor]

You mean mana shield? Mage armor seems pretty handy for it being a core part of our regen :P

[mielikinna]

LOL, you are correct, mana shield. There are a few officers in my guild who can't get the two straight, and its rubbed off on me.

[Jenkat]

Well, guys - I'm really not sure what to do about my playing. I take all your advice, I study boss tactics like there is no tommorrow, I do everything that I possibly can - and still - I just don't seem to play very well. Even on bosses where I know the fight in and out. I'm posting this log from Ragnaros - a fight that I know very well. Looking at this depressing log, leads me to the question: Are some players just doomed to be mediocre?
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1uj042g48h9nncjm/
I really wish that I could understand what makes you guys so awesome and I wish that I could learn to do it too.

[leethaxor]

Players are not doomed to be bad.

In a raid you often have players who aren't doing everything they can to do their job to the best of their ability. This leads to a phenomena I call "The endless carry." Which is defined as: A situation where every player in the raid is not preforming the their best, they cut corners. One players mistakes, sloppy jobs, corners cut, becomes another players responsibility. Now that player needs to be at 110% of their game to pick up that slack i.e. one player playing at 110% the other at 90%. If they aren't, it leads to issues.

Here is a good example. Last week on normal ragnaros, my guild majorly screwed up our phase 2 transition. Myself, and 2 other people went to the wrong side of the room. We quickly realized we screwed up, and rushed to the opposite side of the hammer. But luckily the 3 players who were facing off against the 6 suns of flame, were able to act correctly and pick up the slack allowing for our Hunter, warrior, and myself to round the hammer and get out stuns and slow (with 2 adds only inches from the hammer).

When you see guilds that progress faster then other guilds, or rank higher then other guilds there is two tokens to that. Skill and Gear. Gear is issued because of skill regardless of the loot system; players who get world ranks have both gear and skill. They get gear from being the first to kill content (which is because of their skill), then they are capable of using it better then other players because of their skill.

This leads to a sort of arms race. A player who wants to break into hardcore raiding now has to be better then the current best. Its best to use arena rankings. Lets say a player gets gladiator in season 1, he got that gladiator with a ranking of 2500. Now season 2 rolls around, he gets gladiator again, but this time at 2600. Why? Because other players have learned at 2500 rating of skill wasn't good enough to be the best. Now if a new guy wants to be a gladiator in season 3, he looks at old rankings and says, "Ok I need to be 2600 to be a gladiator." Now at the end of season he got his 2600 rating, but the player who glad from s1 an s2 got a 2750 rating. Now the new player tightens focus and s4 he achieves 2900 rating and gets glad, with the old hat (see: s1, 2, 3 glad) only gets 2850 rating.

The point I'm making is once a player achieves a high of play only has to improve in small ways. For a top player to continue to be a top player he has to improve by like 100 to 200 'rating' but a player who is trying to become a 'top player' will need to improve my 1000 to 1700 'rating', this forces them to actually be far better then the 'best', but they need to keep working on becoming the 'best' after they get in league with the 'best'.

TL;DR The only thing that dooms a player to mediocre play, or guild is there inability to accept the challenging of trying to be the best they can.

[Jenkat]

Ok, Leethaxor. You have inspired me. I'm just going to keep trying to improve my playing little by little and not give up. Thanks! <3

[Jenkat]

Ok, I'm back again. I have not lost faith and have been working very hard. A big improvement for me is that I have minimized my down time. I had a good raid last night when we tried Rhyolith HC. Here is a link to my best try:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=820&e=1171

I went onto world of logs to study my performance and to compare it to other mages to see how I can improve. I looked at this mage's kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6.../18/?s=0&e=188

We are have similar gear and stats. What I simply cannot understand is how come he does so much better than me. I'm only looking at the adds cause we wiped on second phase and they did not which ofc makes a difference. But his dmg on adds is so much more than mine. How can this be? I feel like there is some secret to how to play well that other mages know that I do not.

I hope that you guys will look at these logs and tell me if there is anything that you can read from them that could help me cause I cannot understand how he did so much dmg to these adds compared to me.