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[Pirika-Draenor]

First off.. so many people are all pissed off at Lore for his comment about women.. but I think they're taking it in the wrong context. I'm allowed to say this.. cause I'm a woman.

I've yet to meet a mediocre female player. They're either intensely good or suck and put no effort into becoming better. This rings true for males too, but more often than not, you can find an entire guild of mediocre males.. I dunno. I get what Lore meant when he said that. Same about being really nice or a total bitch. It's called PMS. Get over it. One of my good friends in game puts on airs as being a total bitch.. she's also the most awesome person I know. (Sorry Alli, you know it's true. :P No cankles this week if yr lucky *grin*)

A lot of people have been giving scores on the documentary. Okay.. 7/10. If there was anything that I'd change, it would be similar to what Valiar above me said.. more about who they really are. Like, Lore is married (right?) and Fearwards is in a long term relationship. What kind of work do they do? What about kids? Do they play with their spouse? With their kids? We make it a family thing in my house. We may not RAID together, but we do PLAY together. My husband has yelled at me and called me an idiot plenty of times. :P

I think focusing on a single group somewhat limited things, but since it was only supposed to be a 10min lead-in to begin with.. I think the job of putting it all together was quite phenomenal. However, and I say this from my own view, if I hadn't started playing as a gift to my husband, this video wouldn't have changed anything. We met playing MUDs 20years ago.. I get the social and gaming aspect. I never really understood how he could deny his children or me "special" time, simply because he had to raid. This documentary wouldn't have changed my views. Now that I also raid, I get it. As a woman, I can probably explain it better to both our friends and family. Men tend to lack the ability to truly explain why being there all 4 nights for 3 hours straight is more important than picking the kids up from swim practice.. or ultimately, having sex with your partner. (Yep, I said it.)

I think the documentary will give much insight to people who have no gaming background whatsoever, but it will eventually open up a ton more questions.. and a THE RAID II (as was mentioned lightly in the commentary) will most likely be needed. I hope that Kevin will open his mind to more of the other internal aspects and not simply think about the huge 3 top raiding guilds in the world etc, that he mentioned in the end commentary. I think there's potential for more eye-opening. As well, he will find that those top guilds tend to have the no-life that he's trying to prevent people from thinking gamers have. I don't think it will put a positive spin on things.. but if he gets the time and money.. I surely do hope he can find out and make changes along the way.

For one of the first videos that positively displays WoW and gaming, I must give props where they're due.

Thanks Lore, Cinder, Fear, etc. for taking the time to work with Kevin on this amazing project.

[Eukaryotic]

Maybe it isn't the girl gamer that brings the drama, but your views on women.

<3

There were some parts of the documentary that I liked (and yeah I've actually seen quite a few documentaries, lol) and I definitely think the guy who made it can go on to do better things but I do not think it did what it claimed to do (I would definitely not show this to a non-gamer as a way to explain why I play this game). Mostly though, I am really disappointed by the content. I am well aware that the world is full of racist, sexist jerkasses (believe me I know) but I did not expect that to be demonstrated quite so well in this documentary. I am not "a hater". That wouldn't make sense since I've been looking forward to The Raid and I've been watching tankspot videos for some time now. But this, I am embarrassed after having watched it.

Even more importantly Lore's responses in this thread have been illuminating and incredibly disappointing (perhaps it's naive of me to have expectations, but still) and there's no reason for me to frequent this site anymore. For the record I find referring to woman as bitches quite hostile and that is in no way just a minority or outlying opinion or even "just my opinion". I don't really expect anyone to give a damn, but I think it's important to voice one's dissatisfaction, however futile. Or perhaps not futile. People should care about one less visitor because it can certainly add up. Goodbye now.

[kodax]

It's funny, I watched this documentary with my wife (she wanted to see it no cohesion on my part). For myself I really enjoyed it though would have liked it to go into more depth but considering that this was essentially a one man project (yes I know he had help but I am sure the majority of this film's work rest upon his shoulders) I am not surprised by that it was not longer. In all honesty I am quite impressed with its quality, length and professionalism especially considering the circumstances. As others have said I would have liked the film to go into more about what makes a raid hard and what occurs in between wipes (the frustration the changing of tactics...).

My wife on the other hand felt that the film really did not do a good job describing what raiding is to a non-gamer. She felt that the target audience was Wow'ers (maybe not raiders but people already very immersed into the game). In her mind it did not really provide an overall picture that encapsulated raiding. For example I had to miss a dinner with my parents one night because a raid was scheduled. When she had told my family why I was absent from the dinner no one really understood what she was talking about, "Oh he has a raid scheduled. What's that? What does that mean?" For her she did not think you could show the documentary to an audience like my family and get them to understand what it means to raid.

[Pirika-Draenor]

Mostly though, I am really disappointed by the content. I am well aware that the world is full of racist, sexist jerkasses (believe me I know) but I did not expect that to be demonstrated quite so well in this documentary. I am not "a hater". That wouldn't make sense since I've been looking forward to The Raid and I've been watching tankspot videos for some time now. But this, I am embarrassed after having watched it.

Even more importantly Lore's responses in this thread have been illuminating and incredibly disappointing (perhaps it's naive of me to have expectations, but still) and there's no reason for me to frequent this site anymore. For the record I find referring to woman as bitches quite hostile and that is in no way just a minority or outlying opinion or even "just my opinion". I don't really expect anyone to give a damn, but I think it's important to voice one's dissatisfaction, however futile. Or perhaps not futile. People should care about one less visitor because it can certainly add up. Goodbye now.

Lore doesn't run this site. He simply participates and makes the Weekly Marmot videos and some of the current content help videos. If you don't want to be here simply because he participates in the site, then you'll have a lot of sites you'll no longer visit.. and I guess that means you'll quit playing the game too? You say you're not a hater, but your words reflect a different outlook. He was one person out of ten. If you had never visited TankSpot or seen any of the marmot videos, you wouldn't have thought his words were anything but a single persons different and possibly somewhat distorted views. However, because you've seen so many of his videos, you hold him to a higher standard.

Your pants are on too tight if you really can't see that he wasn't insulting anyone.. just expressing his experiences. Same as when people say that trade trolls must be 12 year olds with no lives, or something along those lines. That's stereo-typing 12 year olds as being douche bags.. but is in no way insulting every 12 year old or saying that ALL 12 year olds act that way.

I'm kinda disturbed that so many people are focusing on the ONE comment by Lore, instead of commenting on what the video was meant to accomplish. Lots of posts have expressed exactly how I feel, but so many of you want to just make drama about a 30sec segment in the hour long film.

[Kazeyonoma]

Also, you have to realize how the question was phrased that Lore was asking, did no one else read that part in Lore's explanation? He was being frank when answering the specific question, but in the video it was displayed in a slightly out of context way, which is why it came off as harsh, but he was speaking in a colloquial manner that is pretty common in the internet community.

[Kazeyonoma]

You can be critical of the film and things said in it, but lets not strawman this thread and discussion into something it's not, we have rules against dragging discussions into unwarranted subject areas. Take some time to think before you take out your pitchforks and turn this whole thing into something it's not.

[Tulireer]

I said nothing hostile towards women in the slightest, unless you take "sometimes they're really nice, sometimes they're not" as hostile, which is ridiculous.

35:02 "They are either really, really nice or they are total bitches."

[Quinafoi]

My wife on the other hand felt that the film really did not do a good job describing what raiding is to a non-gamer. She felt that the target audience was Wow'ers (maybe not raiders but people already very immersed into the game).

This is my general oppinion of the documentary myself. It was ok, but I feel it definately missed the true target audience in its attempt to cater to the community which feeds it. I personally felt that some of the additional materials such as the Lady Raiders video was put together much better.

If the goal is to teach non-gamers about what drives these gamers and why, then I think it failed to deliver.

[Krenian]

35:02 "They are either really, really nice or they are total bitches."

Heeey way to show exactly how it is when taking context of information given to you and making it totally awkward! You just did the same thing that happened to Lore in the documentary by using a piece of a greater discussion!

Seriously. If you're going to quote someone for something he said to prove a point, use the whole statement. He followed that with the explanation about how it came up about typical stereotyping that happens to women.

This was about as bad as what happened to Lore and the comment in question. Don't play that game.

[kymmico]

Please try to be mindful of others opinions.

I am. I disagree with yours and I have said why. I don't feel that I was disrespectful of your opinions or of you, so...I feel that I WAS mindful of others opinions. I just chose not to share them.

[Zerothegreat]

I am. I disagree with yours and I have said why. I don't feel that I was disrespectful of your opinions or of you, so...I feel that I WAS mindful of others opinions. I just chose not to share them.

Sorry, I meant that to everyone participating in the discussion not directly at you. I see a lot of people that liked the film just responding to other people's comments saying "haters gonna hate". I don't see how that makes a smart counter intuitive point. It may have not been in this thread though, they all kinda start meshing together. Lol!

[Kazeyonoma]

But if people like the film and want to say they disagree with the negative posters, saying "haters gonna hate" is just their way of posting "their opinion" in support of the documentary no? I fail to see how them not wanting to argue with you, but claiming that they think you're negative views are simply yours, and that they did like/support the documentary, is anything but a valid post.

[Zerothegreat]

But if people like the film and want to say they disagree with the negative posters, saying "haters gonna hate" is just their way of posting "their opinion" in support of the documentary no? I fail to see how them not wanting to argue with you, but claiming that they think you're negative views are simply yours, and that they did like/support the documentary, is anything but a valid post.

Well if I replied with "lovers gonna love". It would be considered trolling to an extent. The same way that if someone dislikes something without a valid reason they are considered trolls. If someone says they like something without a valid reason what does that make them? Fairies? Lol!

[Insequent]

Heeey way to show exactly how it is when taking context of information given to you and making it totally awkward! You just did the same thing that happened to Lore in the documentary by using a piece of a greater discussion!

Seriously. If you're going to quote someone for something he said to prove a point, use the whole statement. He followed that with the explanation about how it came up about typical stereotyping that happens to women.

This was about as bad as what happened to Lore and the comment in question. Don't play that game.

But the point is that for the average viewer of this, that's all the impression of him they'll get. For the average viewer, that clip WAS the full statement. If this is targeted at non-raiders, they won't be here to get clarification. They won't care who Lore is, or why he matters. Just like people that don't watch baseball could care less who plays third base for the Brewers. If they happen upon this and watch, they'll only get that clip.

It doesn't matter what his intention was while making the statement. What matters is that that's what's in the film. This happens every day, and you know it. Somebody says something, it gets taken out of context, and they spend the next few months to the rest of their lives explaining it. In some cases, their reputation is tarnished forever. Need some examples? Just look at the world of politics. Happens all the time there.

This is a society of soundbites. Perhaps Lore could have phrased it better. Perhaps Lore could have been more professional in his demeanor. But to blame other people for taking a five second clip out of context? Nope. Doesn't fly. The blame for this rests solely on Lore and the filmmakers.

[Insequent]

But if people like the film and want to say they disagree with the negative posters, saying "haters gonna hate" is just their way of posting "their opinion" in support of the documentary no? I fail to see how them not wanting to argue with you, but claiming that they think you're negative views are simply yours, and that they did like/support the documentary, is anything but a valid post.

No.

Shall we just sit around repeating internet memes all day? Turn this place into 4chan?

If people don't have anything to add to the discussion, and simply parrot up responses, that is not a valid post. Let's say we take one of Lore's Marmot threads and simply respond with nothing more than "QFT" in every post. Is that valid?

And what about this, from the posting and chat rules you link in your sig:

However, if you are making an argument without any sort of evidence, math, or theory as to why something is wrong, you're just trolling.

"Haters gonna hate" seems to me to be the very definition of that.

[Kazeyonoma]

Where are such qft and short internet meme posts? I don't see any. I wasn't talking about that part. I was specifically referring to another poster who attacked a poster who simply was showing support. That isn't a useless post. This isn't even an argument but your grasping at straws to make one. Stop it.

[squats]

Can anyone figure out what font they used for the logo?

[Kemanorel]

Timeframe is also something to be mindful of, the Lore who spoke without considering the implications of his comment being taken out of context is not the Lore of today. At least the DVD release also offsets his 1 comment with a segment devoted entirely to women who raid talking about raiding. Also, his statement of 2-axes, attitude and skill can be said of most players... Tankspot just has been traditionally heavily favoring the "good people who play awesome" as opposed to other sites who cater to "nice people who kind of suck" or "badasses with bad attitudes" or even "horrible people who need to l2p." of course, there are whole spectrum of degrees in each of those 2 axes... and there are countless others not considered. Also remember that in all probability his interactions with the interviewer had grown more casual and thus the "careless phrasing"... just look at the posture shifts between segments.

[Darksend]

Found this relevant article

http://gamertherapist.com/blog/2011/...acking-stigma/