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Thread: 4.2 Healy Trinkets - bleh?

  1. #1
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    4.2 Healy Trinkets - bleh?

    Fiery Quintessence - "Backwards" itemization. Good for mana (at least for some classes, time it with a mana cooldown), and it makes a nifty throughput cooldown but ultimately, I'm not impressed. I wants static Intellect!

    Jaws of Defeat - Nice Intellect. The on-use seems a little clunky - if you use it paired with a ton of instants then it will be nice, but I can't say it's a straight-up upgrade for a Disc Priest (my class/spec).

    Eye of Blazing Power - Oh boy, Althor's Abacus 2.0! Back in ICC, it was a decent trinket because mana was plentiful, not because the proc was well designed (quite the contrary). Now that mana is a limited resource, this isn't very attractive - I'll reserve the final judgement until we learn the proc rate and ICD and such, but I'm not exactly waiting with bated breath.

    Is it just me, or did Blizzard totally go overboard with well itemized healer trinkets in the first tier and then run out of ideas? One two three four trinkets that had static Intellect and either Spirit or, in the case of the Doll, a hawt mana return clicky. Then there was the Alch stone, an amazing Spirit/regen trinket, and the most incredible thing to happen to well-progressed Disc Priests since sliced bread (oh, and I heard it's good for other healers and Arcane mages, but don't tell that to the people in my raid).

    I'm currently using Tsunami and the Alch stone, and don't see anything particularly impressive on the loot lists until heroic modes (both H Firelands, and of course H Cho'Gall/Sinestra in the previous tier), especially given the lack of Spirit cloth which may lead me to value the stacking 400 Spirit buff over the extra Intellect on the other trinkets.

    Will you be holding on to your old trinkets?

  2. #2
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    Yea I agree none of the healer trinkets impress me since I play Disc I will mainly be aiming for ones with Int on them and flat equip bonuses I don't really find on use trinkets that good.

    I'm using Tsunami and Tyrande's Favorite Doll my self, I like the dolls on use since it doesn't pressure me into a time limit like a +int trinket would 20 odd seconds of +int begs you to use more mana then needed the same goes for that jaws of defeat trinket 20 seconds of -110 mana per spell stacking 10 times it would make you spam spells to get the most out of it which would defeat the purpose of it which is to save mana.

    With the whole lack of spirit cloth gear drops I am pretty sure Blizzard have lost their minds on what direction they are actually going.

    Side note on the lack of spirit gear drops I think blizzard are using priests to test see if people will still raid with no loot rewards, future instances will drop nothing but badges and everyone will be happy just killing bosses for fun....
    Last edited by CoolNitro; 06-30-2011 at 03:42 AM.

  3. #3
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    Already having Shard of Woe as Discipline the choice is between Jaws of Defeat and Fiery Quintessence.

    Jaws of Defeat is worth at worst 250 MP5 and at best around 400 MP5. The Heroic version is about 30-50 MP5 more. This will all vary greatly and there might even be times where you can barely get use from it although the idea with this trinket seems to be hold off using it unless you have to put out tons of healing ASAP. The more that happens in a fight the better this will be for that fight.

    Fiery Quintessence is 433 SPR and about 360 static INT. The SPR works out to about 300 MP5.

    Even from a Regen standpoint Jaws has the potential to save more mana over the course of a fight. It also has the static INT which will increase max mana ergo it will increase your regen from fiend/hymn/replen also. You also have a smaller but constant boost to healing and crit.

    While timing out the Quintessence with Hymn and Fiend sounds really nice, even then, with that extra effort and attention paid to the trinket, the MP5 will not be much more than the Jaws unless the fight has very little to no AoE healing or need to cast 10-15 heals/shields in a row. There aren't many fights like that. There's also the fact that things just won't line up all the time and waiting for things to line up degrades the benefit of lining these things up.

    Bottom line, Jaws of Defeat seems to pair with Shard of Woe the best. Otherwise I would probably take each of these over Heroic Fall of Mortality and Tyrande's and any other trinket prior to 4.2.

  4. #4
    Yeah, Shard of Woe/H-Jaws of Defeat will be the two choices for most healers. Shard of Woe is just beyond ridiculous for certain specs.

  5. #5
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    Anyone know if JoD is double stacking with beacon transfer on live realms? I know it wasn't on the PTR, but then again, in WotLK there were several PTR builds where the Meteorite Crystals did not double stack with our Beacon transfer, yet it always did so on the live realms.

    If it double stacks, it will probably find its way into my gear list, but without double stacking I would bet that heroic Fall of Mortality would probably outperform it (and without the headache of having to micro manage the trinket effect).
    "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebadoh View Post
    Eye of Blazing Power - Oh boy, Althor's Abacus 2.0! Back in ICC, it was a decent trinket because mana was plentiful, not because the proc was well designed (quite the contrary). Now that mana is a limited resource, this isn't very attractive - I'll reserve the final judgement until we learn the proc rate and ICD and such, but I'm not exactly waiting with bated breath.
    I'm going to disagree here. Althor's proc was a nice HPS boost in ICC (think 3-4% of total healing?) that was largely overshadowed by the fact that, as you said, in ICC mana was not a limited resource, and thus it ended up being largely overheal. The new trinket here will probably be 'better' simply because it'll be less healing you need to do, saving you on mana in the long run. How much it'll affect healing will obviously need to be tested, but I am quite anxious to play around with it. This and Jaws will probably be my two trinkets, because I doubt my guild will go back and kill sinestra.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebadoh View Post
    Fiery Quintessence - "Backwards" itemization. Good for mana (at least for some classes, time it with a mana cooldown), and it makes a nifty throughput cooldown but ultimately, I'm not impressed. I wants static Intellect!

    Jaws of Defeat - Nice Intellect. The on-use seems a little clunky - if you use it paired with a ton of instants then it will be nice, but I can't say it's a straight-up upgrade for a Disc Priest (my class/spec).

    Eye of Blazing Power - Oh boy, Althor's Abacus 2.0! Back in ICC, it was a decent trinket because mana was plentiful, not because the proc was well designed (quite the contrary). Now that mana is a limited resource, this isn't very attractive - I'll reserve the final judgement until we learn the proc rate and ICD and such, but I'm not exactly waiting with bated breath.

    Is it just me, or did Blizzard totally go overboard with well itemized healer trinkets in the first tier and then run out of ideas? One two three four trinkets that had static Intellect and either Spirit or, in the case of the Doll, a hawt mana return clicky. Then there was the Alch stone, an amazing Spirit/regen trinket, and the most incredible thing to happen to well-progressed Disc Priests since sliced bread (oh, and I heard it's good for other healers and Arcane mages, but don't tell that to the people in my raid).

    I'm currently using Tsunami and the Alch stone, and don't see anything particularly impressive on the loot lists until heroic modes (both H Firelands, and of course H Cho'Gall/Sinestra in the previous tier), especially given the lack of Spirit cloth which may lead me to value the stacking 400 Spirit buff over the extra Intellect on the other trinkets.

    Will you be holding on to your old trinkets?
    Trinkets tend to be a little tricky and hard to judge on ilvl alone. Their usefulness can change from fight to fight so that can affect choice just as much as the actually stats on them. I know the on-use int proc from quintessence is less than ideal for most fights but I imagine on Baleroc that piece is very op when used together with vital flame.

    It's also an upgrade for some of us who only heal on alts, :P

    That being said if you already have 372 gear it's possible the 378 trinkets are worse than what you have. The 391 trinkets on the other hand have 433 int and are most likely an upgrade at that point.

  8. #8
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    I kinda dig the Jaws of Defeat in principal. Idk how it would play out numbers-wise, but seems as if you could do the first 10sec of treeform stacking lifeblooms and have really cheap regrowths to finish off the last 10sec.

    The Fiery Quintessence though, idk if it is necessarily backwards or just a little hard to see a time when using this would be zomgawesome. I will say that I personally tend to prefer Power Torrent over Heartsong, a nice hunk of Int at times comes in handy, and if you could time this trink with a PT proc and Innervate, forget about it.

    The Eye of Blazing Power is totally Althor's 2.0, but Althor's was awesome at the time, right? But rly, a free heal proc would have a chance to make other things more useful yeah? like Earthliving or Living Seed? Plus, any heal that doesn't cost mana is like... well, free mana.

    I am also currently using Alch stone and Tsunami as well, and have no immediate plans to replace them (mostly because we can't down a boss so far... and it will take near on forever to grind that exalted rep.)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amamaeth View Post
    I'm going to disagree here. Althor's proc was a nice HPS boost in ICC (think 3-4% of total healing?) that was largely overshadowed by the fact that, as you said, in ICC mana was not a limited resource, and thus it ended up being largely overheal. The new trinket here will probably be 'better' simply because it'll be less healing you need to do, saving you on mana in the long run. How much it'll affect healing will obviously need to be tested, but I am quite anxious to play around with it. This and Jaws will probably be my two trinkets, because I doubt my guild will go back and kill sinestra.
    Hmm. This is actually a good point - I always hated the Abacus proc, but I suppose you're right, it may be more useful this time around. Time and testing will tell - I'll try to be more open-minded about it.

    My perspective has changed a little bit since I posted this a week ago (time flies when you change servers, factions, guilds, and mains). Now I'm on a less-geared Holy Paladin that's using Tsunami paired with Fall of Mortality, and I'm definitely reconsidering a bit. Jaws could easily be macro'd to Avenging Wrath (same 2 minute cooldown), which I use for heavy spam phases where the on-use would really shine. Fiery Quintessence could be macro'd to the same spell, or alternately macro it to Divine Plea for a nice chunk of extra mana regen.

    Still not sold on Abacus 2.0 but I can see it being handy when I'm much better geared and can afford to lose some Spirit. :-P

  10. #10
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    After actually using the 378 Jaws of Defeat as a (10 man) Disc priest for a while now, I find that under normal use the pseudo mp5 of the use effect is quite poor compared to t11 trinkets.

    As it encourages heavy spending, rather than seeing it as a mana saving trinket, I am using it mostly as an (expensive) extra raid cooldown. If you're in need of a raid wall and barrier and PI are on cooldown, pop the trinket, go into inner will and shield spam before some heavy raid wide burst damage, then after the burst switch to inner fire and prayer of healing. I don't really like shield spamming the raid and it's still not a great use but you can do it while moving to stack and this makes shield spamming slightly less terrible for your mana.

    That isn't to say that it shouldn't be used for normal mana savings, it's just another way of thinking about the trinket and that if you only want to use it for mp5, there may be better things to use.

    As this thread implies, you will probably end up getting it at 391 anyway just for the flat int and a lack of anything better. Probably best to let a good resto druid have first priority on it though. It obviously works best if you would have used a lot of instant GCD casts anyway even if you didn't have it.
    Last edited by ghelyar; 07-08-2011 at 01:59 PM.

  11. #11
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    I am shocked and horroed by the trinkets that Firelands has produced. All of them just seem horrible for healers and caster DPS.

    I hope we get some of them changed around.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghelyar View Post
    After actually using the 378 Jaws of Defeat as a (10 man) Disc priest for a while now, I find that under normal use the pseudo mp5 of the use effect is quite poor compared to t11 trinkets.
    If you at least get to a full stack of the trinket during the duration it is worth about as much as Heroic Fall of Mortality when it procs.

    Now if it's used when you really have to dump heals, it has the potential to save up to double the amount of MP5 as Heroic Fall of Mortality.

    So even without "forcing" spending to get a full stack as quickly as possible, it's still really good. It's even a little better than MP5 since you never actual spend the mana.

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