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Thread: Fire mage really needs help

  1. #1
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    Fire mage really needs help

    I have been playing mage since the beginning of wotlk. I played fire in the beginning and then went arcane at TotC and on. I have been playing fire for all of catacyclsm. Here is my char's armory link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...enkat/advanced

    My problem is that my dps is too low. This has always been a problem for me but recently it has gotten worse even though I continually try to improve.

    I do 20k on the new BH boss. But I do 8-13K when my guild has to take me on progression raids for lack of better players online. I really hate performing so poorly and feel like I am letting my guild down. They are all very nice about it but it really bugs me.

    We had a shadow priest in our guild who had similar problems and found lots of help on shadowpriest.com. They kind of took him under their wing and really helped him. He is now our best ranged dps.

    I wish that I could find someone who could help me in that way. I really want to become a better player.

    I already study the fire mage compendium and forums on Elitist Jerks (I don't understand all the math in detail, but I do understand the advice about rotations, etc.) and I practice on the dummies. I always study boss tactics before the encounters.

    If there is anyone out there who can help me, I would appreciate it very much.

  2. #2
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    There are a couple of really good sites that can help you. maxdps.com is a good one. Also check out http://www.noxxic.com/mage/fire/. Are you having problems with your rotation?

  3. #3
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    maxdps.com is bad never ever use it.

    noxxic's fire guide is OK at best.

    For fire, you need to remember your ABC's of dps. Always Be Casting. Fire can cast and move, if you are moving, and not scorching your doing it wrong.

    Your priority is this:
    1) 5% crit debuff
    2) Living bomb (see: Note 1)
    3) Flame orb (see: Note 2)
    4) Pyroblast (on hotstreak)
    5) Fireball
    6) Combustion (see: Note 3)

    Your stat priority is:
    1) Int
    2) Hit (to 17%)
    3) Crit ~ Haste (see: Note 4)
    4) Mastery

    Do you have logs, what is your raid comp, what fights are you progressing on? This will really help me help you.
    Personally I would go arcane, the dps is better (single target).

    Note 1:
    The tick of living bomb does more damage then the explosion so ideally you don't want LB to fall off the target. Letting it explode is only good in AoE situations, other wise you want to 'clip it'. Which is a misnomer because you can't clip a DoT in cata.

    Note 2:
    In my experience flame orb does 3 things:
    1) Goes to your target, and does it job.
    2) Goes the direction your facing and speeds off nowhere near the target and fades.
    3) Gets caught on the floor, sits there for 5 seconds and explodes.
    How can you combat this? Simple, before you cast it hit your left and right click buttons while mous'ing over the target. Now you are facing your target and your flame orb will fire right off at him.

    Note 3:
    Combustion can be your best friend, or worst enemy. Combustion is a fun little CD as it takes your DoT's and gather's them into one super DoT. How does this work? Well lets say you have these 3 DoT on the target:

    Ignite: Ticking for 15 000 damage (30 000 damage total)
    Living Bomb: Ticking for 1 500 damage (7 500 damage total)
    Pyroblast: Ticking for 1 500 damage (uhh 10 000 damage total)

    Now you cast combustion, now your DoT's look like this:

    Combustion: Ticking for x damage (59 375 total)
    Ignite: Ticking for 15 000 damage (30 000 damage total)
    Living Bomb: Ticking for 1 500 damage (7 500 damage total)
    Pyroblast: Ticking for 1 500 damage (uhh 10 000 damage total)

    Whoa, but you said combustion just combines my Damage over Time affects?

    Well it does, but it Dips into your mastery when it does so, so combustion double dips into your mastery (when the DoT you will combust is applied your mastery is applied to that).

    Well that's awesome should I stack mastery then?

    No. Your mastery still sucks unless you are flying on alysrazor where you hard cap your crit and haste due to how the encounter buffs you then you should stack mastery because its the only stat that will actually benefit you for the encounter (and because about 75% of your damage will be from DoT affects).

    TL;DR: Only cast combution when you the pryoblast, ignite (after a crit over 30K), and living bomb on the target.

    Note 4:
    Haste is still important for fire mages. Saying Crit > Haste is wrong basically. Fire mages try to balance crit AND haste because both are needed. We have long casts, so we need haste. But all our procs are from crits. One of your goals should be to reach the 'softcap' for living bomb. Namely 12.5% haste raid buffed. Which is very simple to reach, you only need 7.5% haste if you bring a balance drood, shadow priest, resto shaman, or ele shaman. Stacking over that is still beneficial but crit is better.






    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  4. #4
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    Thank you very much for your response - this is very helpful. =)

    I’m going to respond to everything that you mentioned except the parts that I already understand and practice.

    We are working on Lord Majordomo and hopefully soon Ragnaros. We still struggle a bit with Alysrazor (I have been on the ground for this encounter). Our raid setup varies a lot. But in the raids that I mentioned above we had: pala and druid tanks (moonkin on Majordomo), resto shammy, holy pala and resto druid, dk, shadowpriest, desto warlock, rogue and me.

    I do not have logs. I made a profile on World of Logs but was unable to add my guild because someone already set up our guild on the site and then he went inactive so I do not have access to the password. Is there anyway around this problem? I would like to have logs of my encounters.

    I have considered going arcane but I have worked so hard to learn fire and I would like to perfect this spec as much as possible. I considered going arcane as offspec but thought that it would be too much of a hassle with different stat priorities with gear and gemming, etc. Do you know how other mages deal with this? Do they have two seperate sets of gear or do they regem and reforge for the different encounters?

    I was surprised to see Flame Orb so high on the priority list. I do use it when it is up but I guess I’ve been a bit lazy about it. I never realized that facing my target was so important. I will make this change. Thank you very much.

    Could you please explain more about ”clipping” living bomb. Do you mean that I should refresh it right before it explodes?

    This also brings me to another question about living bomb. Should I, for example, apply living bomb to an add even though there will not be time for it to explode? For example the ghost doubles on Majordomo or another add with low hp. For that add I normally scorch, fireball and then depending on how fast he is going down fireball again or scortch.

    You say that I should wait for an ignite crit over 30k!!! I’m not sure that I have ever critted that much. On the dummy I usually get ignite crits between 6 and 12k. So my practice in raids has been to wait for an ignite crit over 12K and then use combustion (ofc with living bomb and pyro up too). I do crit on ignite up in the 20s but it seems to fall off very fast so by the time I finish casting my fireball, the high crit ignite has worn off. I made a stopcasting and cast combustion macro to combat this. Would you advise me to use this? And can you tell me how I can get a 30k crit on ignite?

    I have worked hard to get a good balance in my stats. But perhaps my problem with low ignite crits is due to too low crit? What do you think?
    My stats unbuffed are:
    12.80 haste
    17.05 hit
    17.61 crit
    6553 sp

    Also I find myself nervously watching for the high ignite crit at the beginning of the fight so I can get at least 3 combustions off during the encounter. Sometimes I get impatient and use combustion on a lower ignite crit than desireable thinking that if I wait too long, I may not get as many combustions off during the encounter. What are you thoughts on this dilemma?

    What are your comments about the timing of dps enhancing cds? I always try to have combustion, mirror image, lifeblood and a int potion ready for Heroism. Is the Flame Orb effected by Hero? Should I try to use it in connection with Heroism? Lifeblood (240 haste for 20 sec) has the same cd as combustion so I tend to use it with every combustion. I normally do mirror image at the beginning of the fight, with heroism, situationally and either when the raidleader calls for more dps or towards the end of the fight.

  5. #5
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    We are working on Lord Majordomo and hopefully soon Ragnaros. We still struggle a bit with Alysrazor (I have been on the ground for this encounter). Our raid setup varies a lot. But in the raids that I mentioned above we had: pala and druid tanks (moonkin on Majordomo), resto shammy, holy pala and resto druid, dk, shadowpriest, desto warlock, rogue and me.
    Majordomo, shouldn't be that punishing on fire. The majority of your movement is fairly quick and can be handled by blink. A think you can do to boost your dps slightly is to iceblock your bomb debuff. Iceblock will cause it to explode but then you don't have to worry about it latter in the fight, one less thing. Also i wanted to check your comp because fire needs it raid buffs more then arcane I think (and it feels like).

    I do not have logs. I made a profile on World of Logs but was unable to add my guild because someone already set up our guild on the site and then he went inactive so I do not have access to the password. Is there anyway around this problem? I would like to have logs of my encounters.
    WoL is nice to have. Its not critically important. It would let me get a bit deeper in your head, and see what your doing right and wrong a bit more. Not crucial but it helps a little.

    I have considered going arcane but I have worked so hard to learn fire and I would like to perfect this spec as much as possible. I considered going arcane as offspec but thought that it would be too much of a hassle with different stat priorities with gear and gemming, etc. Do you know how other mages deal with this? Do they have two seperate sets of gear or do they regem and reforge for the different encounters?
    I currently raid as arcane and fire. I use the same arcane and fire gear mostly. I swap my trinkets. I really don't worry about the haste and mastery heavy gear in fire because when I go fire my job is normally AoE and fire will do it well enough, and it helps with impacted DoT's. But after some testing over two weeks Arcane Explosion's AoE seems to be pulling ahead for me because we are locking down adds to quickly for my DoT's to do anything.

    I was surprised to see Flame Orb so high on the priority list. I do use it when it is up but I guess I’ve been a bit lazy about it. I never realized that facing my target was so important. I will make this change. Thank you very much.
    Flame orb is your highest damage per execute in arcane or fire. All my stuff about facing the target is because I get really really tired of times when flame orb decided to bug out on me. Sure I can count them all on one hand that its happened to me but it annoys me, so those are steps I took to prevent it. If you don't have the problem don't use it lol.

    Could you please explain more about ”clipping” living bomb. Do you mean that I should refresh it right before it explodes?
    In WotLK you most likely heard the phrase "Clipping your DoT's." Which meant you were reapply a DoT before it expired and fell off of your target. In wrath you aimed to have 99.99% DoT up time, reapply as soon as the DoT fell off. Now in Cata how DoT's work is the original tick is kept when a DoT is reapplied. How is this different from wrath?

    Lets just use a vanilla dot, it lasts 10 seconds and ticks once every 1.5 seconds.

    In wrath:
    Code:
    00.00 Apply Dot
    01.50 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    03.00 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    04.50 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    06.00 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    07.50 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    08.50 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    08.60 Apply DoT
    10.10 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    Here the player applied the DoT before its final tick. What this did is added a new DoT, that over wrote the original DoT affect on the target. In affect all he did was lower the total damage that his DoT will do by 900 damage.

    In Cata:
    Code:
    00.00 Apply Dot
    01.50 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    03.00 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    04.50 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    06.00 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    07.50 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    08.50 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    08.60 Apply DoT
    10.00 DoT ticks for 900 damage
    Here the player did the same thing he did in wrath. He cast a new DoT with one tick left on the original DoT. But if you notice the times, the DoT still ticked at the correct time. See in cata when you apply a new DoT, you don't over right the original DoT you just over right the time left until it expires. This allows you to pull off a true 100% up time.

    Its a round about example, but that clipping your DoT's. I'm suggesting you clip living bomb to get 100% uptime on it. When living bomb expires on the target (aka it falls off) the target explodes, and receives damage while doing AoE damage. For me currently in about 9k spell power raid buffed, my LB ticks for around 5k, and explodes (falls off) for 3k. Now living bomb fall off the target is a tick of living bomb, the only difference is it does less damage (unless there is a cluster of Mobs to all get hit by the 3k damage). So what you do is clip living bomb so that its 'last tick' doesn't AoE and hits for more damage.

    This also brings me to another question about living bomb. Should I, for example, apply living bomb to an add even though there will not be time for it to explode? For example the ghost doubles on Majordomo or another add with low hp. For that add I normally scorch, fireball and then depending on how fast he is going down fireball again or scortch.
    I'll let you into a little secret here. Two attempts into majordomo week 1 I just stopped switching. Our melee kill him to fast for me to cast more then one spell, and his death interrupts my second cast giving me a solid second of down time. So I wouldn't even DoT it, if you stop switching and it becomes a problem go back to switching, but if nobody notices you stopped switching, then nobody noticed you stopped switching
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  6. #6
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    My post was getting long didn't want to run into the hard post cap right at a sentence or answer. If its and infraction kaz i'm sorry. I'm just trying to be helpful here.

    You say that I should wait for an ignite crit over 30k!!! I’m not sure that I have ever critted that much.
    I didn't mean you need to roll a 30k ignite pool. I meant when you see your pryoblast or fireball crit for around 30k then you should be good to use a combustion. Also don't just the gun on pop'ing combustion. Ignite is a FUNNN (see: buggy) talent, namely here is how ignite is applied.
    Code:
    0.00 Fireball crits for 30 000 damage
    0.01 You gain Hotstreak
    0.20 Pyroblast crits for 45 000 damage
    0.50 You cast ignite on the target (12 000 damage in the ignite pool)
    Now your reaction was most likely something along the lines of "Wait... What?!" Yup I told you ignite was fun. See ignite isn't applied until 1/2 a second after you crit. And what happens if you crit again during that time frame? Oh well. That's called ignite munching and it sucks.

    So how do you combat it? Well when you crit big I normally refresh Living Bomb then apply combustion because its now off the global cooldown. A macro like this should work
    Code:
    /cast living bomb
    /cast combustion
    Then you auto refresh living bomb to its max duration and put combustion on the target (should work I haven't tested it myself).

    My stats are
    You can remove a bit of haste. You really only need about 9.5% from gear to soft cap living bomb. Which will free up some more room for crit which will help with hot streak procs and more ignite damage. Also one of your specs didn't have molten armor in it. That's a must. You will never leave molten armor, ever (at least in firelands)

    Also I find myself nervously watching for the high ignite crit at the beginning of the fight so I can get at least 3 combustions off during the encounter. Sometimes I get impatient and use combustion on a lower ignite crit than desireable thinking that if I wait too long, I may not get as many combustions off during the encounter. What are you thoughts on this dilemma?
    My thoughts are long and random on the subject. I've heard both sides of the discussion and seen it argued on elitist jerks several times.. And the answer is there really isn't one. A good combustion can be worth 2 or 3 bad ones. Its all pure RNG. Combustion is a 2 minute cooldown which gives you about 15 seconds of lee way on usage to get the 'maximum number' of combustions in a fight. But like I said a good combustion can be worth 2 or 3 bad ones. So you could do one good combustion and it do over 150k damage, or a bad one and have it do like 17k.. Its all RNG largerly.

    What are your comments about the timing of dps enhancing cds? I always try to have combustion, mirror image, lifeblood and a int potion ready for Heroism. Is the Flame Orb effected by Hero? Should I try to use it in connection with Heroism? Lifeblood (240 haste for 20 sec) has the same cd as combustion so I tend to use it with every combustion. I normally do mirror image at the beginning of the fight, with heroism, situationally and either when the raidleader calls for more dps or towards the end of the fight
    Watch your internal cooldowns. Whats and internal cooldown? Its the cooldown on things like power torrent, and both your trinkets. There are addons that exist that will track these cooldowns then you can use a cooldown, like lifeblood before the trinket's internal cooldown ends so you can then stack lifeblood AND a trinket proc. This video will explain it better then me.

    Never delay flame orb. Flame orb's damage will scale to match your current spell power. So if something proc's flame orbs damage will go up. Mirror images don't benefit from haste, so there isn't much of a point to using them a certain time (Unless they can help eat cleaves on majordomo which i'm not sure if they even can so disregard that). Generally here is how your CD's want to look as fire.

    PrePot the pull
    Flame orb every time it comes up
    Combustion close to every cooldown, provided the target has living bomb, ignite, and pyroblast DoT up
    Mirror Images on Cooldown
    Pot the heroism.

    Cooldown usage is amplified for fire sub 35% b.c of your molten fury talent which increases your damage by 12% below 35% health, so if you burn a cooldown here it will increase your damage more then using it at 40% health.
    Last edited by leethaxor; 07-23-2011 at 01:22 AM.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

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    You are so kind to take the time to answer me so extensely. This is very very helpful. It is going to take me some time to go through all of this. So I hope that we can have some ongoing exchanges here. =D

    For now your discovering my lacking Molten Armor glyph on one spec put my dps up 2K on the dummies right after I fixed that. That was a silly mistake on my part. Thanks for correcting it.

    I spent some time today experimenting with clipping my living bombs. But the results on the dmg meter were unconclusive. Leaning towards allowing them to explode being the best. I do understand your examples above comparing wrath and cata living bombs. But it does not seem to consistenly work for me in practice. I compared both clipping and not clipping with a simple rotation (hardcast pyro start, lb, fireball, pyro on hotstreak proc) - leaving out combustion and all cds. I use combustion helper which shows lb as red with 1.5 sec left on it. I cast lb right after seeing this go red on my lb clipping tries. I tried each way until I was oom and did this three times for clipping and three times allowing them to explode. I'm not sure if this kind of experiement is reliable or not. But clipping gave me results between 12.393k and 14.740k. Allowing lb to explode gave me between 13.288k and 15.708k. I also tried mixing allowing some bombs to explode and clipping others as was convenient to the rest of my rotation - this gave me between 12.499k and 13.493k. I was hoping for the best result in this last option of mixing because that is the most realistic in a raid situation where so much is going on.

    I look forward to hearing from you if you have any ideas about my experiements comparing clipping and not clipping my lb. If not, I will return tommorrow with more responses to what you already have written.

    I thank you again for taking the time to help me.
    Last edited by Jenkat; 07-23-2011 at 07:59 AM.

  8. #8
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    Its a very small sample set what you did. Theorycrafters, and theorycrafting programs like simcraft, and rawr will literally run around 1000, or 10 000 times before producing results. It might be better to allow it explode, I haven't played fire since about a week after 4.1 hit. So my knowledge my be slightly rusty.

    I should right all of this down and make a thread over on the dps forums on how to play a pve mage thread.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

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    leethaxor did almost all the suggestions and explanations! I have a couple of points to add here:

    1. I highly recommended that, get an arcane spec. I myself is a fire mage fan since Wrath too, but fire currently just can't compete with arcane except for special purpose. The biggest advantage of arcane is its reliability. If I don't screw up on my CD and mana management, my dps will not be fluctuating. Fire on the other hand, is highly dependent on RNG. Though you might get really good dps sometimes, you will also get some frustrating results from time to time. Also arcane has controllable burst DPS, compare with fire's only burst damage CD, combustion, which requires some luck to get it rolling.
    Among the 5 bosses I've encountered in Firelands I only use fire for Alysrazor flying duty.

    2. Glyph of Pyroblast is suppose to be superior to Glyph of Living Bomb in single target situation. Though I think the difference is small.

    3. Living bomb has an extra exploding tick when it ends, so refreshing it before it drops doesn't guarantee optimal DPS. The best way is to re-apply it just after it explodes, but apparently this is unachievable in realistic. What I've been doing is refreshing my living bomb if it is going to explode in < 1 sec when I finish my current fireball cast. If it has > 1 sec left then I'll fire another fireball and let it explode before re-apply a new living bomb.

    4. Regarding flame orb, it scales extremely well with spellpower. So if it's possible to line it up with a CD without delaying too long (I usually check my Volcano CD, if <10 secs I'll wait), I think it'll be a dps gain

    5. Combustion doesn't aggregate your DoTs' total damage, but use their damager per second instead. So if we have the following DoTs without any haste:
    Living Bomb 3000 per tick (3 secs per tick)
    Ignite 10000 per tick (2 secs per tick)
    Pyroblast 1200 per tick (3 secs per tick)
    The damage per second of your DoTs is 3000 / 3 + 10000 / 2 + 1200 / 3 = 6400. So combustion will tick for 6400 every 1 sec for 10 sec without any haste. With certain amount of haste you'll get extra ticks from combustion, and the damage is extra i.e. u gain another 6400 tick if you have the haste required.

    So, you don't have to re-apply living bomb just before using combustion. Ignite is the most important portion of combustion's damage, while the DoT from pyroblast is pretty weak. It's fine to use combustion without the pyroblast dot when you have a nice ignite rolling.

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    Thanks Tschus for joining this discussion. I will consider making an arcane spec. How do you deal with the gear, gemming and reforging issues playing both fire and arcane depending on the encounter?

    I did some experiementing with Flame Orb at the dummy today and discovered that I got almost three times the damage if I used Flame Orb at max. distance! I thought that it was the oposite! I think that using Flame Orb at every cd and when I'm at max distance (which is almost all the time ofc) will help my dps a lot.

    I made an account for my guild on WoL and I'm going to try to see if I can figure out how to make a log for our raid on monday. If it works, I'll post it here on Wednesday. We will be working on Majordomo. I tend to panic a bit on progression raids and that may also effect my dps in a negative way. So I hope that I will not seem like too much of a retard to you guys.

    I need to get an addon that times my internal cds. Could you please recommend one?

    I understand that Mirror Image does not benetit from haste, but does it benefit from other things like my trinkets proccing?

    Could I please hear your opinion on this question: This also brings me to another question about living bomb. Should I, for example, apply living bomb to an add even though there will not be time for it to explode?

    Thanks again for all this help! =)
    Last edited by Jenkat; 07-24-2011 at 06:13 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenkat View Post
    Thanks Tschus for joining this discussion. I will consider making an arcane spec. How do you deal with the gear, gemming and reforging issues playing both fire and arcane depending on the encounter?
    Well just like leethaxor mentioned. Since the only fights that I use fire is for AoE and Alysrazor, you dont need to reforge again because aoe fire and arcane with T11*4 both emphasis on mastery.

    I did some experiementing with Flame Orb at the dummy today and discovered that I got almost three times the damage if I used Flame Orb at max. distance! I thought that it was the oposite! I think that using Flame Orb at every cd and when I'm at max distance (which is almost all the time ofc) will help my dps a lot.
    o.O There should not be such huge differences. I'll be testing this later.

    I need to get an addon that times my internal cds. Could you please recommend one?
    I use ForteXorcist's cooldown bar for this purpose.

    I understand that Mirror Image does not benetit from haste, but does it benefit from other things like my trinkets proccing?
    Mirror Image is more a defensive cooldown than damage cooldown, so I think it's not very important. :P
    But I guess they'll benefit from trinkets proccing, you can do a test.

    Could I please hear your opinion on this question: This also brings me to another question about living bomb. Should I, for example, apply living bomb to an add even though there will not be time for it to explode?
    It Depends on how many ticks this living bomb is going to tick. For one GCD you can cast a scorch or 2/3 fireball, so if the living bomb can tick for like 3 ticks I think it's worth it.

  12. #12
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    You are right about the Flame Orb - it does not matter if you are close or far away. I tested it only once and had good crits when I was far away.

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    As far as I knew mirror images didn't scale from any of the host's stats other then spell power (or maybe thats our t12 mirror images).

    Its more of the defensive cooldown anyways. Pop them at the start of the fight so you don't have to worry about aggro for 30 seconds.

    I've actually started to go arcane for AoE more now, since me and my guild's MM hunter just lock down adds to fast.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

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    If mirror images benefits from spell power, then it may be worthwile to time it when my trinket Stump of Time procs. What about intellect which give spell power? Do you think that mirror images would benefit from it?

    I want to report back to you guys that your advice has been really helpful. I was between 14.5k and 17.5k during Majordomo on Monday. That is a big improvement from my 8-13k last week. The changes I made were: regemming for crit, doing flame orb on every cd and making sure I was facing the boss and fixing the molten armor glyph.

    I did not get the combat log program up and running so I have to no logs to show now. But I will try to get that going tonight and post it tommorrow.

    I installed ForteXorcist and I just need to get it set up so it works for me. I will look at it this week and see if I can learn how to time things with my internal cds.

    Tonight I will be facing: Shannox, Beth'tilac, Lord Rhyolith, Baleroc and Alysrazor. If you have any tips for these bosses, I'd love to hear them.

    I did play arcane for a lot of wotlk and after all of your encouraging, I am considering going arcane. But I will need some time to get into playing arcane again. It will have to be a slow adjustment for me. First I will learn how to time things with my internal cds. That is enough of a challenge for me now. After that I will make an arcane spec - perhaps next weekend.

    I am very very grateful for all the help that I have received from you two. Thank you very much. I hope that we can continue the discussions here

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    I just got ForteXorcist all set up to follow my two trinkets (one is for int and the other spell power) and my power torrent enchant (int). I think that this will really help me a lot.

    I've done some testing on the dummies and as far as I can tell Flame Orb benefits from both int and spell power. But mirror images seems to only benefit from spell power.

    I have some questions about Combustion Helper. Sometimes there is an * in front of the ignite number and sometimes an *- Does anyone know what that means? Also sometimes the ignite number is green, sometimes white. Also the background is sometimes transparent, sometimes green and sometimes white. Can anyone explain the reasons for this?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    971
    At this point in the dicussion, you are talking about max/min'ing a OKAY at best spec. Arcane is leaps and bounds ahead of fire, and you will get better results with less effort.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    51
    I made my arcane spec and I will practice it before I try to raid with it. It may take some time for me to get used to playing arcane again. I'm a bit slow.

    Here are the combat logs of me raiding tonight with my fire spec. I'd love to hear any comments that you may have which could help me improve, if you have the time to take a look.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...wku/details/7/

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    971
    -You critical mass uptime was very bad, I just glanced but it doesn't look like anyone else is providing the 5% crit debuff
    -Your second potion was (most likely) before you were in execution range on the boss. Fire does 12% more damage when mobs are at or below 35% health.
    -Also your guild doesn't hero on baleroc?
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    51
    Thank you so much for taking a look at my combat logs. I will work harder at keeping critical mass up on the boss. I'm not sure about the second potion or about hero on Baleroc. I'm sure that we do intend to use hero on all bosses - so I'm not sure what happened there.

    I have a question. Would you advise me to use my second potion at under 35% health - even if we use hero earlier? I normally always use the potion with hero even if the boss is above 35% health.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    971
    Well there is really only three times to hero.

    -Initial: Maximum benefit to all classes
    -Execution: Maximum benefit to execution capable classes
    -Healing purposes: Some random point in the fight where there is a soft enrage mechanic.

    Initial is taken care of with a prepot.
    Execution is well taken care of with a second potion

    If the '3rd case' is happening. Then its a toss up. If you find yourself not moving or will be able to put constant dps on the boss at this point then its a good idea to pot at that time.

    Like my guild hero's on Majordomo on his second scorpion phase. So I use the potion there, while healers are needing I can still use/abuse it at this time.

    TL;DR Yes pot during hero unless you shouldn't, I can't always judge it :P
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

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