Death strike buff and his glyph

[Feanorr]

Hello there,

I didnt post there for a long time, but as I am returning to my DK as a tank, here I am.

I was wondering if any math pro already did some test with the last hotfix on Blood strike to see if the glyph would become better than the competition.

I am currently using death coil, Rune strike and HS glyph's. Death coil is there for lichborne, so it's a "defensive" rune (I mean I am using it as a defensive rune) and I wont change it. As far as I know the RS glyph is better than both the DS and the HS one's. So it's between HS and DS. According to EJ, HS was better until then, but I dont know how much better.

I dont mind sitting at 90-100 RP (I got 130 max since I use a lichborne spec) for the DS glyph to be at her max (or close).



So, any hard core theorycrafter around please?


Fea

[Airowird]

Heart Strike:
150% Weapon Damage + 819 Bonus Damage
+30% disease bonus
+30% glyph bonus
= 253,5% Weapon Damage + 1384 Bonus Damage

Death Strike:
150% Weapon Damage + 330 Bonus Damage
+90% talent bonus
+~9% damage from talent crit bonus
+~35% glyph bonus (avg. 87,5 RP)
heals you
= 419,38% Weapon Damage + 923 Bonus Damage

DS does 165,88% Weapon Damage more for 461 less Bonus Damage
It also helps you survive through healing/mastery, but costs a FU pair.

The question you should ask yourself is: If I had neither glyph, which ability would be doing more damage? (check your logs) Then, simply glyph whichever does most

PS: glyphing DS could also grant you more shielding, resulting in less DC heal needed. A prime glyph you use once a fight vs constant survival gain, I'ld take DS over DC glyph, even with Lichborne.

[klausi]

A prime glyph you use once a fight vs constant survival gain, I'ld take DS over DC glyph, even with Lichborne.

True words were never spoken. Just looking at some parses DC heals for ~ 27k w/o glyph and 31k w/ glyph, that's a maximum of 36k additional healing over a six minutes fight (three times Lichborne used, spamming three DC each time).

[Muggins]

I think you need to look a little closer at the tooltip of Death Strike:

'A deadly attack that deals 150% weapon damage plus 330, healing you for 20% of the damage you have sustained during the preceding 5 sec (minimum of at least 7% of your maximum health).'

Death Strike hasn't healed from damage done for quite a while now.

[Airowird]

Actually read that, but simply forgot again. WTB Multi-tasking skills

[Animalz]

This might be long, but it's relevant. Swear.
Anyways, seeing as I have tanked both ways on a dk, I felt the urge to post.
Dual Wield blood tanking IS DEFINITELY viable, and, in SOME situations, optimal.

I have a tendency to pull massive dps on my dk while tanking, very much to the aggravation of the warrior/paladin tanks (and some druid tanks) that I raid with. 18-23k dps, on a dk tank, wielding a 2h. Easily 8-11k more than typical tanks, so taunt swapping and similar mechanics really piss them off (and me, when the boss suddenly comes back to slap me for another stack, like on rag >:[ )

Note, that this is with a 2h, using fallen crusader. Now I know a lot of people are going to rant "OMG you're a bad dk tank, use stoneskin, you suck, blah blah blah."

Now consider this: 1 point of strength = 0.25 points of parry rating for warriors, paladins, and death knights
In combat, raid buffed, fed, flasked, yada yada, I have a bit short of 7600 str. 15% of that would be 507, which is 126 parry.

I'll sum this up without adding too much info: with my current items, fallen crusader is worth another .7% less melee hits taken. Stoneskin is worth 0.76% melee damage taken, and like 6k more hp off of welll over 200k raid buffed. I think i was at 210k last FL I was in.

AND THIS IS WHY DUAL WEILD IS VIABLE.
Crusader main hand, nerubian carapace OR swordbreaking off hand.
roughly .7% parry + .38% armor and 1% hp, or 2.7% parry.
not to mention the heal and parry % are going to proc much much much more often. Once in combat, I rarely see it fall off, if ever.

Note: my dps drops by about 4-6k, but it is still more than ample threat to be keeping up with even some crazy 35k mage with the legendary.

ALSO, there is a tanking sword that will drop off deathwing in the dragon soul raid with a 15% chance on hit to deal 1.5% of your max HP as damage to your target, and heal you for twice that amount. It is a 1 hand. As far as I know there is no ICD... heroic version is 1.7%, raid finder is 1.3%

Dual weilding those would be worth a MASSIVE dps increase, as well as colossal self healing. Stacking stamina/mastery on dk's was already the way to go, now even more so.

[leethaxor]

@Animalz
Okay, we have a thread on this very subject. And all of your points have been outlined in it.

As a DK tank you should break 20k dps, a good DK can almost do 30, I know our guild has logs of our DK easily pussing 26 to 27k on some bosses. 507 strength is about 126 parry rating or without DR about .71% parry. Which isn't as much a parry enchant could get you. Your missing out on 1.3% parry, which would not be subject to diminishing.

The reason DW is viable is because it is a slight avoidance gain AND about a 1.1% healing gain. The trade off being 8% less damage and 10% less threat.

[ananoon]

@Animalz
As a DK tank you should break 20k dps, a good DK can almost do 30, I know our guild has logs of our DK easily pussing 26 to 27k on some bosses.

Can you link some of these logs? According to raidbots, the top 100 parses don't show that kind of tank dps. On 25 man heroic, DKs are at the bottom averaging about 14k dps, and palys are at the top at 18k. All of the other fights look similar, except for Alys of course.

[Animalz]

Whether or not that guy will, I'd be glad to. It's a tuesday, so I'm sure I'll find time for a pug or whatever.
if said dk is fully heroic geared with Sulfuras n' stuff, I don't doubt that his numbers are possible.

But mine is just a sh^t alt char, with mismatched gear.

EDIT: All that being said, the majority of other death knights I've grouped with on my main are TERRIBLE. And I mean just downright freaking awful. <10k dps, less than 2k self healing per second, yada yada. If you could looked just at stats of the more skilled players in competitive guilds, I'm sure you'd see more impressive numbers. :END EDIT

[Tengenstein]

The top 200 ranking for Majordomo 25HC have Blood pulling between 16k and 34k dps, Baleroc 25HC has between 11k and 21k dps

[Animalz]

That's such a huge range, really.
That vengeance... So fat...

[ananoon]

The top 200 ranking for Majordomo 25HC have Blood pulling between 16k and 34k dps, Baleroc 25HC has between 11k and 21k dps

Looking at top 100 on http://raidbots.com, here's what I see for all the fights in heroic 25 (except Alys):

H. Beth - 13.6k avg, 12.5k - 18k
H. Rhyo - 17.4k avg, 15.5k - 23.3k
H. Shannox - 19k avg, 17.4k - 24.3k
H. Baleroc - 13.1k avg, 12.1 - 19.4k
H. Domo - 18.6k avg, 17k - 34.7k
H. Rag - 13.5k avg, 10.5k - 18k


Out of all of these fights, DKs were either the last or second to last on every fight from the four tank specs.

H. Domo on 25 is much higher for tank dps in general. My guess is that since most people use the cat phase only strat, we have high tank damage (full vengeance) throughout the whole fight, and we have tank cleaves for the adds.

H. Baleroc is probably the best fight to gauge single target tank dps. Looking at all the fights, the max dps for DKs barely ever gets above 20k, even for the top 100 parses. The original statement I quoted from Leethaxor does not align with the data. A DK tank should not usually be breaking 20k dps and almost doing 30. On only one fight does the max dps even break 25.

Note that if you were to look at all parses, these averages would be even lower. We're looking at biased set here, where we probably have the best DK tanks in the world.

[ananoon]

Also, I just checked the top blood dps logs for h. domo. Looks like the two guys who broke 30k weren't really tanking. The top one took no damage the whole fight, and the second one took damage only for the scythes on scorpion phase, and no subsequent damage.

Looks like the averages and max dps for tanks on this fight is skewed heavily because of the concentration buff in the heroic version of this fight.

[Animalz]

Using a mitigation rotation, self buffed, I've been able to pull 16-17k dps versus a raid dummy.... no vengeance, no raid buffs, etc. Most of these people must be doing something horribly wrong.

[ananoon]

Using a mitigation rotation, self buffed, I've been able to pull 16-17k dps versus a raid dummy.... no vengeance, no raid buffs, etc. Most of these people must be doing something horribly wrong.

"These people" are death knights in top parses. It's unlikely that they're all doing something horribly wrong.

How about substantiating some of your claims with real parses next time you post?

[Fetzie]

Using a mitigation rotation, self buffed, I've been able to pull 16-17k dps versus a raid dummy.... no vengeance, no raid buffs, etc. Most of these people must be doing something horribly wrong.

Can you provide a combat log parse, which gear did you have equipped, how long was your test, and for how long could you hold the 16-17k dps?