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Thread: Crit block and combat table coverage

  1. #1
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    Crit block and combat table coverage

    Lets say I have:
    15% Dodge
    15% Parry
    7% Miss
    70% Block
    50% Crit. Block (35% effective Crit Block)
    (Against a 85 or simplicities sake)

    That would give me complete combat table coverage. My question is the excess block that gets pushed off the combat table, would it leave me with 35% effective crit block or 31.5%?

    Essentially once your unhittable, does reg block get pushed off the combat table before crit block?
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  2. #2
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    Crit block isn't on the combat table just block. Once you block there is another roll to determine if its a regular or crit block (2 roll system). So you would end up with 37% avoidance 63% block of which 50% would be critical blocks.
    One small thing is that during shieldblock the excess block would count towards extra crit block. So shieldblock would give 32% crit block in your example.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    Lets say I have:
    15% Dodge (pre diminishing returns)
    15% Parry (pre diminishing returns)
    5% Miss
    55% Block w/ 50% of those blocks being crit block (if you have 50% crit block - I don't know off the top of my head how much you'd have)
    (Against a 88 because that's what matters)
    Corrected

    I moved it to 88s because thats where theory-crafting happens. Honestly, no one cares about 85s and because of the way the level differences scale, it will give you an inaccurate picture of reality.

    ***

    Once you are block-capped - to answer the question...

    I believe (and I could be wrong), the priority is:

    Boss Miss
    Dodge
    Parry
    Block
    Boss Normal hit
    Boss Crit Hit

    You talent out boss Crit Hit
    At 102.4% you push Boss normal hit from the table
    Above 102.4%, you push block off the table - so you'd want to reforge away from mastery into dodge/parry, taking into account the increasing DR on dodge/parry to make sure you stay above 102.4%.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  4. #4
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    the number on the character sheet is post diminishing returns (when you mouse over and it says Parry rating of X give y% before dimisnihsing returns is telling you how muchit gives before diminishing returns). then you have to just tag on the Bosses Block/avoidance/miss supression of 0.6% for each entry left on combat table

  5. #5
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    Combat table events are driven off of the attackers attack skill versus the defenders defense skill which is derived by level difference. You lose 0.2% to each of these stats per level the attacker is higher than yourself. So against a raid boss which is always valued at player level + 3, you would have 0.6% taken away from Miss, Dodge, Parry, and Block. Additionally, they gain chance to for Critical Hit at the same rate of 0.2% per level.

    Avoidance factors come before attack factors. The melee combat table in order of priority is as follows.

    Miss
    Dodge
    Parry
    Block
    Critical Hit
    Crushing Hit
    Normal Hit

    The total of all events is equal to 100%.

    Avoidance Events
    Miss Rate = 5%, +2% if Night Elf
    Dodge Rate = % Dodge from character sheet (post deminishing returns)
    Parry Rate = % Parry from character sheet (post deminishing returns)
    Block Rate = % Block from character sheet (block is not subject to deminishing returns, however as the first event pushed off the table has a variable hard cap)

    Attack Events
    Critical Hit = 5%
    Crushing Hit = 0%
    Normal Hit = 100% of whatever remains.

    You have talents which reduce chance to be Critically Hit by 6%. So this a raid boss at player level plus three will have a 5.6% chance to crit which after your talents will be 0%. We can remove crit from the possible events. Additionally, Crushing Blows only apply when there is a level difference of four or more levels and since a raid boss is only three levels higher this will also be 0% and can be removed from the table. Leaving you with the following more simplified table.

    Miss
    Dodge
    Parry
    Block
    Normal Hit



    Alright, so now to your example.

    7% Miss
    15% Dodge (from character sheet)
    15% Parry (from character sheet)
    70% Block
    100% Normal Hit

    Against a raid boss, all amounts are reduced by 0.6% so we get:

    6.4% Miss
    14.4% Dodge
    14.4% Parry
    69.4% Block
    100% Normal Hit

    Now, there is a functional cap on the combat table of 100%, you actually take away events at the end of the order. How this process works is you sum up the values from top to bottom. Once you exceed 100%, anything above 100% is removed from the events. As a result of this we get the following:

    6.4% Miss
    14.4% Dodge
    14.4% Parry
    64.8% Block (4.6% of Block was beyond 100%)
    0% Normal Hit (You are "unhitable".)

    As for critical block mechanic, this is a secondary roll that occurs as you can only critically block something that was actually blocked. Assuming you had 50% chance to critically block, you expected amount of critical blocks in this case would be 32.4%.

    So if you were to look at a parse of combat against a raid boss you'd expect to see numbers trend towards the following...

    6.4% Miss
    14.4% Dodge
    14.4% Parry
    64.8% Block (32.4% Critical, 32.4% Normal)
    0% Normal Hit

    Bare in mind all of these mechanics are random. As the number of swings goes to infinity you'd expect it to trend closer and closer to these numbers, however in the limited scope of combat of a single boss encounter there can be more variance.
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 07-14-2011 at 09:00 AM. Reason: fixed crit block numbers
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  6. #6
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    As far as I know, only excess block generated when Shield Block is active gets converted to critical block, if SB is not active excess block is "wasted".

  7. #7
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    I hate to be a prat, but considering people have provided conflicting info, I have to ask.

    Do we have a source for any of this, or is it just speculation?

  8. #8
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    In game observations of thousands of logs

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrea View Post
    As far as I know, only excess block generated when Shield Block is active gets converted to critical block, if SB is not active excess block is "wasted".
    This is what I thought as well. Mastery gives you 1.5% block and 1.5% crit block per 1 mastery (179.X mastery rating). It doesn't talk about rolling over, just Shield Block. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=76857

    ****

    The difference between 100% and 102.4% is a matter of perspective. Since a raid boss is 3 levels higher than you, it's slightly harder to be fully block-capped (unhittable). But from the raid bosses perspective, probability is a range from 0 - 1 (0% - 100%). That part isn't contradictory, it's just the truth from a different point of view

    The difference between 5 and 7% boss miss is looking at night elf versus all other races. I haven't looked at stats against 85s in a long time because that's not important to me, so I made what probably an erroneous assumption there changing from 7% to 5%.

    What exactly do you see as being contradictory? Just if mastery 'overflow' gives crit block?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  10. #10
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    I corrected the critical block numbers to reflect no overflow in my original post. That piece of the puzzle I didn't have a full understanding of. Thanks for the correction.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    What exactly do you see as being contradictory? Just if mastery 'overflow' gives crit block?
    well yes, excacly. Would have a pretty heavy effect on gear selection down the line... But re-reading the thread I don't know where I found the opposing oppinion... I need to stop doing this before I go to bed.

    Regarding the actual topic, it was actually answered in the first response. the 2-roll system means that whatever you don't avoid will be blocked, and the crit block would be a percentage of that. In the OP

    avoidance = 7+15+15 = 37%
    70% block chance --> 100-37 = 67 actual chance to block
    35% crit block would yield 67*0,35 = 23,45% of attacks were critical blocks

    wether or not the numbers are realistic is somewhat irrelevant, that is how it would work.

    and yes, if those values are pulled from character sheet, you need to subtract something, as people have already explained thoroughly.

  12. #12
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    Well I'm grateful for all the replys, Bigbad answered the question I had in his first response. I just wanted to know if the block mechanic used a 2-roll system when determining a critical block. That has an effect on the relative value of Mastery post block cap.
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  13. #13
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    There's a neat little addon for making this more visual in game: http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...bat-table.aspx

  14. #14
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    so did we confirm mastery past uninhabitable will not effect crit block and will in fact be wasted stats? so wars prob gear either to stam or parry/dodge post block cap?

  15. #15
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    1 Mastery provides 1.5% Block chance and 1,5% Crit Block Chance
    I don't think anyone has suggested the 1,5% crit block disappears at some point, but the first half will be wasted over cap.

  16. #16
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    Well you kind of have a few soft caps.

    One at 77.4% where shield block will give you full CTC.
    One at 102.4% where mastery will only grant crit block chance (passive full CTC).

    Then I guess there are two hypothetical caps that I doubt it is ever going to be possible to reach.

    Shield block grants 100% critical block chance (thus temporarily hard-capping mastery)
    100% critical block chance without SB (the actual hard cap at which point more mastery rating grants no further benefit)

  17. #17
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    The caps Pyrea mentions are 33.34 Mastery (50% crit block) and 66.67 Mastery (guaranteed crit blocks).
    But there is simply no theoretical reason to go that far. Once you hit CTC Mastery takes a nose dive in usefulness.
    The 50% crit is technicly possible, if you have 30% full avoidances and 70% block. But you'ld need gear set that has tons of Mastery on every item, including trinkets and gem/enchant everything with pure mastery, which is not optimal overall. (Or possible I believe, considering the current itemization)
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  18. #18
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    Just for reference, 33.34 MAS is about 6000 Mastery rating, 66.67 MAS is nearly 12000 mastery rating.

  19. #19
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    Because of the way critical block is calculated, mastery only gets better the more you get of it. The following is ignoring block from other sources:

    Assuming you've got 10% block from mastery, you'd also have 10% critical block. At this point you've got 10% of your block chance to critically block, which is an overall 1% chance to critically block, and 9% chance for a regular block. Underwhelming, right?

    At 20%, we've got a 4% chance to critically block, and a 16% chance to block. Our critical block went up by 3%, and the regular block by 7%.

    At 30%, there's a 9% chance to critically block, and a 21% chance to block. Both our critical block and regular block chance increased by an additional 5%. This is where things get really great...

    At 40%, there's a 16% chance to critically block, and a 24% chance to block. Our critical block chance went up by a whopping 7%, while the block chance only went up by 3%.

    At the 50% point, the percentage chance to critically block starts eating up your chance to block. Your chance to critically block continues to climb, but your chance to block starts shrinking on your blocking table. In other words, when comparing critical block and block at this point, both at 25%, the critical block % continues going up at an increasing rate beyond this point, but the block chance shrinks. The "blocking table", though, is a separate entity from the regular avoidance table altogether. Critical block doesn't push block off of your avoidance table, it's only calculated on a successful block.

    Any mastery beyond the 30% mark is more beneficial for your critical block chance than regular block, just looking at the block chance from the mastery alone. You've also got to consider that your critical block chance is based off of your overall block (you get 20% chance to block just for having a shield and being a tank).

    Being at the 102.4% unhittable point is just another soft cap, and mastery continues being a prot warrior's best stat as far as I can see.Remember that the "wasted" block is still factored in when calculating for critical block, so the math gets slightly more complicated at that point.

  20. #20
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    Something I'm wondering, the proc from "Hold the Line" is it additive or multiplicative? I've got a few macros to tell me my crit block % and some other things. Including the macros in case anyone is interested.

    For calculating crit block % and hold the line (if it's multiplicative):

    /run local b,m,c,h=GetBlockChance(),GetMastery() c=(m*1.5/100)*b h=(m*1.5+10)*b/100 ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Critical Block Chance: %.2f%% Hold The Line Critblock: %.2f%%",c,h))

    For calculating crit block % and the amount of extra crit block given when I pop shield block:

    /run local b,m,p,d,c,s=GetBlockChance(),GetMastery(),GetParry Chance(),GetDodgeChance() c=(m*1.5/100)*b s=b+p+d+5-100 ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Critical Block Chance: %.2f%% SBlockSpill: %.2f%%",c,s))

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