Beth'Tilac 10m Normal Strategy

[Vana21]

beth-252x300.jpg
Beth'tilac is the spider boss of Firelands. Most groups attempt her first as she is quite easy after a couple of attempts.

Beth'Talic
Abilities:
Fire Energy - Beth'tilac slowly loses Fire Energy over time. Cinderweb Drones also siphon some of her energy when their own energy is depleted. Whenever Beth'tilac runs out of Fire Energy, she will set herself ablaze, causing Smoldering Devastation.
Ember Flare - Intense heat burns enemies near Beth'tilac, inflicting 18500 to 21500 Fire damage to players at the same level as Beth'tilac.
Meteor Burn - Meteors crash down onto the web, inflicting 37000 to 43000 Fire damage to players within 7 yards of the impact. The meteor also burns a hole in the web through which players may fall.
Consume - Beth'tilac consumes Cinderweb Spiderlings, healing Beth'tilac for 10% of her maximum health.
Smoldering Devastation - When Beth'tilac's Fire Energy fully depletes, she will set herself ablaze and inflict 380000 to 420000 Fire damage on all players located at her same level.
Widow's Kiss - The deadly widow's kiss boils your blood, reducing the amount that you can be healed by 1% every 2 seconds for 20 sec.

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Cinderweb Spinner - Cinderweb Spinners dangle from the web above on a filament strand. Using Taunt or a similar ability on a Spinner will cause them to drop to the ground. Once killed, their web filament remains. Players may then interact with the filament and move to the top of the web.
Abilities:
Burning Acid - The Cinderweb Spinner spits burning venom at a random player, inflicting 18850 to 21150 Fire damage.

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Cinderweb Drone - These large spiders climb out of caves below the Cinderweb. When their Fire Energy fully depletes, the Cinderweb Drone climbs up to Beth'tilac and siphons Fire Energy from her.
Abilities:
Boiling Spatter - The Cinderwb Drone spits burning venom in a 500 yard long 60 degree forward cone, inflicting 58968 to 68531 Fire damage on any enemy within the area.
Burning Acid - The Cinderweb Drone spits Burning Acid at a random player, inflicting 18850 to 21150 Fire damage.
Consume - Cinderweb Drones consume a Cinderweb Spiderling, healing itself for 20% of its maximum life, increasing damage dealt by 20%, and increasing movement speed by 20%.

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Cinderweb Spiderling - These tiny spiders climb out of caves below the Cinderweb. They instinctively move towards Cinderweb Drones.
Abilities
Seeping Venom - The Cinderweb Spiderling leaps onto a random player within 5 yards, injecting them with venom and inflicting 6937 to 8062 Fire damage every 2 seconds for 10 sec.

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Strategy:
Phase 1
A Tank, a Healer and at least 1 DPS should be in the top group, while a Tank, 2 Healers, and 4 DPS should stay below. If the bottom level can kill spiders fast enough more dps can be allowed up top.
After Beth'tilac is engaged she will ascend to the top of the web and the raid will take some aoe damage. Everyone should be stacked in the middle. After a few seconds, Cinderweb Spinners will start to hang down from the web on licorice looking strands, they should be taunted so they fall off and leave a strand behind for people to ascend tothe top layer.

Top:
The top Tank and Healer should both take a strand (one per person, they disappear after use) and ascend at the same time, or the tank slightly ahead. After those two are up any dps designated to go to the top can ascend. Once up, it's just a race to get as much damage in as possible before Smoldering Devastation. Meteors will fall out of the sky onto the web and leave patches of fire behind. Standing in these causes damage and could make you fall to the bottom level.
Once Beth'Tilac's energy bar gets to 0, make sure you jump though a hole to the bottom level before she casts Smoldering Devastation. It will one shot anyone left on the top level and hits through paladin bubbles and ice blocks. This happens 3 times before Beth'tilac descends to the bottom layer for good.

Bottom:
The tank should pick up any Cinderweb Drones and tank them in the Southwest corner of the area. Face this away from the raid as it does a frontal cone damage ability. Boiling Spatter The Drones should be killed before their energy bars reach zero which at that point, they will ascend to the top resulting in siphoning energy from her, meaning the dps at the top have less time to do damage.
Also happening are spawning of Cinderweb Spiderling which will spawn either at the northwest, northeast, or southeast corners. These need to be slowed as much as possible and die before reaching the Drone or it will be Consumed. Since there are only about 4 dps at the bottom layer, world markers are helpful in calling out where spiders are spawned, such as saying "Spiders at Green" so they may be killed more efficiently.

Phase 2
After the 3rd Smoldering Devastation Beth'Tilac will descend to the bottom level. A tank should pick her up and tank her facing away from the raid. The most important thing right at this moment is making sure there is nothing else alive. No drones or spiderlings should be alive and if they are they are TOP priority. The raid should be at her back dpsing away and popping all cooldowns such as guardian and bloodlust..
Beth'Tilac will cast Widow's Kiss at which point the offtank should pick her up while the main tank runs to her side until the debuff wears off. She will send an aoe that hits the entire raid about every 10 seconds. This just has to be healed through.

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Note that this strategy could be outdated due to nerfs and patches, take this with a grain of salt. If this exact strategy doesn't work for you modifying it for your raid comp is the best idea.

Video from a Mage point of view top layer
Raid Composition was Tanks: Warrior, Paladin. Healers: Shaman, Paladin, D.Priest. DPS: 2 Hunter, Mage, Death Knight, Rogue.

[Quinafoi]

No mention at all of Frenzy or Ember Flare ("an AoE about every 10 seconds") for phase two.

Ember Flare which deals approximately 20,000 fire damage per target is cast every 6 seconds.
Frenzy is cast every five seconds, increasing her damage by 5% per stack.

Those two mechanics combined make it impossible for "this just has to be healed through". I'm sorry but when you get to the average kill time on worldoflogs of just shy of 7 minutes, you are dealing with about a 30 stack of the buff at that point and that 20,000 damage every 6 seconds isn't 33,333 DPS to the raid, it's 83,333 DPS to the raid at the end. Now tack on the damage your tanks are taking. Your comment there reflects a very naive nature to the amount of damage being dealt with. This is unhealable damage levels for three healers, it can only be managed by chaining cooldowns. You can't just heal through it, it's not possible to maintain throughput levels that high. Unless you outgear the content, however as you outgear it since the boss will be dying faster it will not be necessary to heal at these levels because Frenzy won't stack nearly as high.

The Widows Kiss is a healing debuff on the tank which is why you tank swap, however it also causes you to deal fire damage to nearby players. You made no reference at all to this ability causing damage.

Also a video at double speed doesn't help much in terms of perspective.

[Vana21]

The phase 2 aoe is mentioned if you actually decided to read though this without picking out just a few sentences, I didn't link to it because it is unnecessary as it it linked at the top.
And the offtank running to her SIDE while the main tank is in FRONT of he and the raid at her BACK is far enough for the tank to not damage anyone else during widows kiss. Also, if you didn't notice, which you didn't, the ability is linked at the top, feel free to read though it unless you'd like me to hold your hand and explain that word for word to you.

on top of that, don't criticize a guide over a boss you haven't killed nor healed.

[Fetzie]

You don't need to have killed a boss to criticize a guide or propose alterations to its strategy.

As for the points raised in your second post:

You do not mention the stacking raid damage from Ember Flare in P2. You link the spell, and what it does, but forget/do not mention the fact that it scales with the Frenzy stacks during P2.

You also neglect to mention that raid cooldowns should be saved for the last 30%.

(Before you check, yes I have killed the boss)

[Vana21]

Constructive criticism is one thing, whining about a general guide is another.
If you didn't notice which website you are on, its called tankspot which is known for in depth guides. This is not one.
Linking boss abilities isn't a guide in my opinion but you don't see me saying rude things on your threads now do you?

And no, I didn't say to save raid cooldowns because A. Its obvious and B. Most are off cooldown by that time, and chances are, if they were used and happened to be off cooldown, it was prob necessary of that raid wouldn't have made it to part 2.

[Fetzie]

That is because the threads I started were meant to be a nucleus for discussion of tactics and strategy so we can have the discussion for each boss in one thread (stops having stuff drop off onto a second page, which instantly becomes never looked at again and makes the discussions easier to follow). I am sorry if you found anything I posted above insulting or rude, it was not meant to be taken as such.

[Vana21]

I understand. My point in all this is this is the strategy that I and my raids use. Not everyone will use the same strategy.

[Aggathon]

And no, I didn't say to save raid cooldowns because A. Its obvious and B. Most are off cooldown by that time, and chances are, if they were used and happened to be off cooldown, it was prob necessary of that raid wouldn't have made it to part 2.

If you're going to write a guide you should probably including things like this because this is also a site for people of all abilities, gear levels, and experience to come to get advice. Things that may be obvious to you or me may not be obvious to everyone reading this website. You decide to launch a personal attack to someone who isn't even personally attacking you, and you make the same wrong assumption that you blame Quinafoi for doing in not reading all of pyrea's original posts that clearly state his posts are just pages for people to start talking about the firelands bosses, not guides.

Edit: having said that, I think these are just minor details and overall the guide is pretty decent, albeit redundant since I already posted a guide here for 10 man beth where I outline basically the same strategy, yours is just much prettier and actually link spells and boss abilities whereas I just ramble a lot.

[Fetzie]

I understand. My point in all this is this is the strategy that I and my raids use. Not everyone will use the same strategy.

Which is exactly why I made those other threads, if everybody made a new one for their guild's strategy (which are usually fairly similar as it is) there would be hundreds of "[insert boss name] strategy" threads and it would be impossible to read all of them

[Vana21]

as I said i mentioned what I felt was needed for MY strategy not EVERYONE elses. In MY raid we don't save cooldowns because the composition and caliber of who we have, its not needed.
And i launched no personal attack Pyreai just stated my opinion. He cleared up what i had misunderstood but you obviously didn't read that now did you?
As for Quinafoi all he had to say was "you missed this ability here is it" not go into some god awful rant about something that isnt correct in what I was talking about.

[Quinafoi]

The Widows Kiss you linked yes, however you actually saw fit to mention the healing debuff mechanic in your guide. You failed to mention the other mechanic which is the fire damage. When you are going to go into detail, you shouldn't go into detail about one piece of information and neglect the other.

As for my "rant", I find any guide that belittles the role of anyone else to be a failure of a guide. The comment "this just needs to be healed through" is both naive to the true nature of the encounter and an insult to your healers trivializing their contribution to the encounter. Your comment was unnecessary, not to mention incorrect. Because as I pointed out, it isn't possible to "just heal through".

Your attitude in your responses has been quite aggressive in nature as well, not a good trait to have as a perspective guide author. The most offensive thing I said to you is I thought you were naive which your guide does seem to indicate. You understood the encounter from your perspective as a DPS. However belittled the part which is important to healers and wrote it off as trivial and everyone should just know this.

And for the record, I read the post. All of it. That's why I was able to find your mistakes and point them out so you could correct them.

[Krenian]

Ahem.

The fact that this post has been reported after 10 posts doesn't bode well at all.

One: If writing a guide, no matter how redundant it is, you always add EVERYTHING a boss does in a fight. Period. The guide is to make sure that if people read this, they understand all the abilities are in that phase and that there isn't any missing. You may make a guide that is different of other guides but please be aware that if some abilities are glossed over, we have people that will state it's wrong because to them, it isn't clear enough. It isn't an attack on you Vana21, it's a statement to tell you that you should add this.

Quin is simply stating a fact, albeit he's listing them in a manner that may seem to be an attack. You are new here, as I can see with the post counts so you're not used to how people are here. I would ask you to tone it down and don't think people are attacking you. Both Quinafoi and Pyrea have been here for a while and they take some time getting used to, but they're pointing out the flaws of your guide so you can grow and make yourself an even better author when writing guides; not insulting you and making you feel ridiculed and being rude.

The guide, as pointed, is not clear on certain points. Phase two, having read your guide, doesn't explain that the AoE you're speaking of is the one you highlighted above. Don't ever take it that it's redundant; a guide's meant to be that way sometimes to make sure the person understands that this is the attack they have to avoid. DBM repeats the attack anytime it goes off; the same should go for a guide. It would have been to your benefit to write up the names instead of the words you used on the sole fact that a) you would have used less words and b) would have been clearer that this is the attack in question (As you actually list the damage it can do and these numbers are good to know!) that they must watch for.

Let's try to bring this back a notch and be civil. And understand that just because people state some critiques about your guide, doesn't mean that it's bad. It's just missing pieces that people say. You took it as an attack when it was a critique.

Only time I'm going to bring this up. Play nice.

[Kazeyonoma]

there's a difference between selective moderation, and knowing what's a good post or not. Using someone's post seniority is just one way of showing that someone knows what they are talking about versus not. I'm not saying some senior poster here has the right to shit on someone else just because they're new, but I think Krenian was right here in that Quinafoi and Pyrea, were simply critiquing the piece and not flaming it, and that the author should better understand that we, as a community here, aren't out to get them, but rather improve each other.

The simple fact is this, if you write a guide, write it well, and expect feedback. Don't get defensive, or it just discounts from your own accountability as a guide writer. This website takes pride in what it puts forward, including what our community puts forward in our forums. Skimping that status quo, will often be regarded with critiques.

[Penlowe]

This thread is an excellent example of just how hard it is to be a good writer. All written educational material, no matter the subject, is open to critique by anyone and everyone who reads it. From elementary school level math texts to college philosophy texts to gaming guides, writing for educational purposes is never easy. Half the work, and only half, if having the knowledge that others need. The other half is both actually putting words on the page in such a way as to help others learn what you know, and then being willing and able to receive criticism and edit your text for better clarity.

The fact that very experienced gamers offered you critique should be taken as a good sign. 'Guides' that are garbage get no responses at all. Learning to be objective about ones own creations or products is the biggest hurdle to any writer, artist, or entrepreneur. We all hold our creations close to us, it's an extension of who we are. Learning to separate the thing you made from yourself can take a long time if the point isn't drawn out for you.

In short, do your best to step outside yourself when reading responses to your own writing. Ask yourself "is this person actually knowledgeable in the same subject? if yes are their points valid? can I add that information to my writing without it muddying the waters?".

Good luck, keep trying.

[feralminded]

The simple fact is this, if you write a guide, write it well, and expect feedback. Don't get defensive, or it just discounts from your own accountability as a guide writer. This website takes pride in what it puts forward, including what our community puts forward in our forums. Skimping that status quo, will often be regarded with critiques.

While I agree with you and Kren I do want to point out that Quin's post was honestly fairly inflammatory "Your comment there reflects a very naive nature to the amount of damage being dealt with." Now I concur the author should have let that pass rather than let it get to them and get defensive ... but it's mighty hard to swallow a critique, even an accurate one, when it comes laced with a teaspoon of venom.

This is a good guide. Yeap it should be updated to be better and the author needs to acquire thicker skin if (s)he wants to write guides for everyone, but this one is still pretty good.

[Aggathon]

/braces for threadlock.


I'm not a mod but as a fellow author of guides I'd like to agree with Penlowe and step in here and try to calm people down. I've had my fair share of criticism about my guides, both trolls, people giving constructive feedback, and people that were accurate but were being rude about it. I can definitely see where the author is coming from, even constructive criticism can sting one's ego when you've spent a long time on a guide. This author clearly put effort into the guide and made it look way nicer than my Beth'tilac guide, but wasn't perhaps as thorough as it should have been.

Let's all step back because I think a lot of this is semantics/misunderstanding/bruised ego. I don't think Quin's comments were malevolent, and while sort of accurate may have hit an unintended button with the author. Naive was perhaps not the best word choice.

To the OP: Your guide has potential, but perhaps some shortcomings, if you want to write a lot of stuff, this kind of thing is just going to happen and you have to be able to brush it off. Trust me I've gotten into many an argument with other posters here about my guides and it has really made me mad sometimes too, I know where you may be coming from, it's something you just have to learn to deal with, like Penlowe said. Just wait until you get trolled, that's really frustrating because you're just trying to help people out while a troll is spreading misinformation to just annoy you.

To Quinn: I don't think your actions were malevolent, maybe a touch blunt, but if there was truely no malice in your post maybe a brief apology?

Swelt/Feral: I agree with you guys, though I don't think this is that harsh of an offense (although that's up for the forum mods to decide not me). Let's just drop it so we don't have to get this guy's thread locked. The mods are watching it very carefully.

[feralminded]

Swelt/Feral: I agree with you guys, though I don't think this is that harsh of an offense (although that's up for the forum mods to decide not me). Let's just drop it so we don't have to get this guy's thread locked. The mods are watching it very carefully.

I'm with you man. Hopefully we can get a good guide out of this and not a /threadlock. I do want to apologize if I incited any kind of acrimony or anger myself ... such was not my intention.

[Krenian]

The clean up is done. I don't need to say why.

Keep it thread related or don't post.