Split it 12/13 instead of 10/10/5 and you'll be fineOriginally Posted by ferdy30
I have a couple of questions: (10m N)
1. Can a shadow priest with the Glyph of Dispersion can Soak entirely First crystal and be ready to entirely soak third?
2. What other classes can entirely soak the crystals?
3. When do tanks need to taunt of each other?
If they also have another cooldown such as the Mirror of Broken Images in order to get them to the higher stacks before using dispersion then yes. Dispersion has to be used at the very end to deal with the highest amount of stacks, 19-25. However that means you have to live up to that point without it. At 17 stacks, it ticks for 68,000 damage. At 18, 72,000 damage. Going between stacks 10 and 18 you will average out to about 56,000 DPS pre resist (base resistence from Shadow Resist buff will put you at 20% resist so 44,800 DPS). If you have a Decimation Blade occuring at the same time the Shadow Priest won't live through it cause a single healer left on the DPS won't be able to do the necessary 44,800 HPS average that continues to ramp up beyond that. With the Mirror of Broken Images however, the increased resistence results in an additional 31% taken off (increase from 20% resist to 45% resist is a 31% reduction in damage). So by using that trinket you reduce the average HPS to 30,912 HPS which is possible for a single healer.
On to the second part of the question, can they take the third shard? No. That's because if they end the first shard the Tormented debuff won't be off them at the start of the third shard. When you end a shard there needs to be about one and a half shards before you start again in order for your Tormented to fall off. If you use a Shadow Priest to solo one then you'd still have two teams of two DPS to fill the shards between.
Shadow Priest
Team A, Two DPS
Team B, Two DPS
Your rotation would look like that and your shadow priest wouldn't be tanking the third shard but rather every third shard which is 1, 4, 7, 10 and so on.
None can do so at a comparable level to a Shadow Priest. Keep in mind, at like 20 stacks it is 80,000 DPS. If Decimation Blade is occuring at the same time can one healer keep up with 80,000 HPS? Even using other major cooldowns such as Shield Wall which is a 40% reduction , the sheer amount of DPS being dealt at the higher stacks is unhealable for a single healer. You would actually need multiple stacked cooldowns in order to survive such as Shield Wall with a Pain Suppression stacked on the latter half. Dispersion is a 90% damage reduction with no limitations on the amount of damage it reduces, no other cooldown is that powerful. A Shadow Priest's cooldown alone turns that 80,000 DPS in to 8,000 DPS which is trivial easy to heal. No one but a Shadow Priest can actually deal with the highest levels of stacks unless you have multiple external cooldowns being used and stacked. I used Shield Wall as an example because a 40% damage reduction with no damage limit is the largest possible reduction other than the Shadow Priest's Dispersion (if glyphed it could be 60% but then the cooldown would be longer). 40% is not even remotely close to as strong as 90% so you need to stack multiple cooldowns for anyone else to survive.
The main tank taunts off the Decimation Blade tank as soon as they have enough stacks to survive Decimating Strike (2 or 3 depending on their health). They continue to tank at all times except when Decimation Blade is used at which point the Decimation Blade tank taunts and takes the three swings before the main tank taunts back. The Decimation Blade tank starts the encounter tanking in order to aquire the initial stacks they need to survive a Decimating Strike.
Last edited by Quinafoi; 08-28-2011 at 12:25 PM.
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
Here is a little side by side comparison for you... we'll assume in both cases the Mirror of Broken Images trinket was used to get into the higher stacks so won't include that in the stack.
Shadow Priest
Resist Buff (-20%) + Shadow Form (-15%) + Dispersion (-90%) = 93.2% Reduction
Warrior
Aura Mastery Resist Buff (-35%) + Defensive Stance (-10%) + Glyphed Shield Wall (-60%) + Pain Suppression (-40%) + Power Word: Barrier (-25%) + Divine Guardian (-20%) + Spirit Link (-10%) + = 92.4184% Reduced Damage
Shadow Priest Wins
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
We have a Spriest in our group now, but we didn't when we started killing Baleroc. We used a warrior with chained CD's for the first crystal, but it's really only good for the first one. Honestly, on normal mode, you should only need to do it once if the healers do their job properly, as certain classes can easily get up around 100 stacks by the end of the first crystal. That said, Spriests are by far the easiest class to do this with, requiring the least amount of external cd's and with the added viability of being able to soak multiple crystals during the fight.
1. Yes, if glyphed they CAN soak the 1st and 3rd crystal (its off CD, if not glyphed it wont be off CD til the 4th). This is not very practical w/o a CD to get them to 19 stacks. I disperse the first one at 19 and take the entire thing, then disperse at 13 on the 3rd and take it to 18 and switch with someone. I am just off the torment debuff to take the 3rd crystal btw.
2. The only other class we've tried successfully to soak crystal was a DK with AMS/IF/Pain suppression/Barrier... and it was still tough. Only did this when I was forced to heal.
3. Absolutely no reason to 2 tank this fight if you disperse the first crystal, we have 2 healers close to 100 stacks by the time its done, that makes handling the dec blades no issue with 1 tank. In theory, the 2nd tank would tank off only for decimation blade (he also takes the first few hits to get enough HP to not get 1 shot)
While I appreciate that this is the case for your raid, there's also absolutely no reason not to 2-tank the fight if that works better for you (assuming you're not out to set some kind of speed record).
For us, the enrage timer is a push-over, and 2-tanking pretty much negates Decimation Blade as a mechanic. As long as our DPS were reliably 19k+, the encounter felt MUCH more controlled/stable after we started 2-tanking.
Your healers may have "no issue" but not sure that will be a common experience. Our healers are quite capable and have carried us as far as Baleroc with very few issues, and we would still often lose a tank to an unlucky Decimation Blade sequence even w/ Dodge cooldowns & 100+ stacks rolling. Once we started 2-tanking, we never had a tank death again.
I have a couple of questions. We're a super small 10-man raiding guild that really doesn't raid more than 2-3 times a month and got to Baleroc for the first time last night. We typically have warrior+druid tanks and druidx2 with a shadow priest that can go disc heals when we want/need a 3rd healer. So far the other druid and I have 2-healed Shannox and Rhyolith while using the priest on Beth to go up top so we're not finding the post-nerf content that difficult. My questions are:
1) Once the Vital Flame wears off and I get my stack of Vital Sparks back, does it trigger the Vital Flame buff again if you keep healing the tank or do I have to build some more stacks before it will trigger again? (I'm not asking if I *should* build more stacks, I'm asking if it is necessary to the mechanic.)
2) If the Vital Flame/Vital Spark buff works the way I think and assuming we're good enough heals, (since the content has been nerfed) do you think it would be plausible to 1-tank 2-heal this fight?
Now that I've read through the mechanic I think I can build my stacks up quite high (80-90) on the very first shard and just never switch (or not switch till towards the end of the fight when the other druid should have a very large stack). With 2 extra dps (they all pull 18-25K reliably) and Timewarp do you think this would be enough to kill the boss before the healing gets to be too much for two healers? After reading this thread through, I believe we can use a shadow priest to take the whole first shard while I build my stacks and then go into a normal 2-person shard rotation. We weren't really having any trouble with the dps rotation but we were finding the constant heal rotation to not be that successful. Part of this I know is us healers not understanding the Spark/Flame mechanic quite right and some of it was making the boss harder by only using one tank. We will likely get our kill by using a standard 2-tank 3-heal rotation but our group likes to try different things I'm wondering if the way I described sounds viable post-nerf.
1. Provided you have at least one stack of Vital Spark, the Vital Flame buff is triggered and renewed by any direct heal cast on a target that has the Blaze of Glory buff. So to answer your question, no. You can heal the tank whenever you want and it will trigger Vital Flame so long as the other criteria is met.
2. In its current nerfed form, yes. However, the key to single tanking being viable at all is the ability to heal the tank over 90% of their health in the time between the Decimating Strikes (5 seconds post nerf). In the same regard however with the significant nerf to his health this fight is no longer the DPS race it once was. You only require 87,682 DPS in order to beat the berserk timer. It is considerably easier to heal a second tank with significantly smaller health pool between the Decimating Strikes.
I think you may be attempting to over trivialize the encounter for a group that has never done it before. You aren't a group pushing heroic mode so why are you overcompensating for more DPS when additional DPS isn't required. Two healing and/or single tanking is something you may work your way into but not something I'd really expect to see as a starting point.
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
Does any one know how long each crystal last on 10-man heroic? Just trying to figure out how to manage mana for the first crystal as a holy pally and still get a lot of stacks. Thanks for the help.
I think its still around 25-30 stacks...leaning towards 30
Usually you will only get about 20-30 stacks per shard, esp because the mechanic requires u to spam direct heals. I dont think ull b reaching 90 stacks because ive never seen our healers over 150 on normal or heroic encounters
That's interesting considering my personal best 112 stacks on the first shard on the pre-nerfed encounter. The nerfs actually make it easier for a DPS to take torment longer thus increasing the potential ease of gaining stacks from shards (Shadow Priests for example can take a full shard now without even needing something like the Tol Barad trinket). It's quite possible, and actually not terribly difficult, to break 100 stacks on the first shard.
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
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