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Thread: Firelands BIS Gear: Feral Bear

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    Firelands BIS Gear: Feral Bear

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    Zeppelin, Wow, and Whiskey... Can life get any better? I submit that it Can NOT!

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    Very helpful, thanks alot!

  4. #4
    Parasitic is worse than Flamebinder.

    However the Flickering Wristbands are better, yes.

    By the same token, Windstalker Belt is worse than Riplimb's. Sinestra's is better though.

    Ancient Petrified Leaf is also better for straight mitigation than either Spidersilk or Scales. However some of the heroic modes can have really high EH requirements, so definitely still keep them both around.

    http://theincbear.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katarn View Post
    Parasitic is worse than Flamebinder.

    However the Flickering Wristbands are better, yes.

    By the same token, Windstalker Belt is worse than Riplimb's. Sinestra's is better though.

    Ancient Petrified Leaf is also better for straight mitigation than either Spidersilk or Scales. However some of the heroic modes can have really high EH requirements, so definitely still keep them both around.

    http://theincbear.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5
    Personally, I am still using the 359 valor one with hit and stacking agi, and when I get the one off rag ... I am going to replace the heroic halfus one and keep using the 359 one because it is just that good and stacks up so fast it really does not matter. Using stam trinkets on certain hard modes that take a lot of non-physical non-avoidable damage but even then I have usually opted to go back to fluid death after a few attempts (having gone through the first 4 hard modes I think I had 180K on shanox and alysrazor, 190 on beth, and 210 on rhyo simply because that dam stop was murder). I would rate heroic vial above non-firestoned scales, even though they have less HP I am finding that all 5 of the hard modes I have killed/tried so far require some pretty heavy burst avoidance and the heal on scales will not save you.


    also ... ancient petrified leaf? isn't that the hunter quest item? but if it is the trinket I am thinking of ... THAT HAS TO BE BUGGED 15 second duration is traditionally coupled with a 90 second cooldown (I think the str one is bugged as well)

    4pc+ gloves is what I finally decided I liked best, BUT THE CHEST WAS REALLY CLOSE (at the heroic level). I finally said, rogue 4pc is 4pc+chest so I have no competition on the gloves and they dropped first heroic shannox kill, so my mind was made up. Also reforging 311 crit vs 264 haste (since you will not reforge the mastery) was worth giving up the 303 mastery since the gloves were such a close second, but I would love to see the math on the 4pc is it actually posted somewhere in that link (sorry 6am posting here did not look to hard I apologize).

    you also do not list the spidersilk trinket at all, I passed it to my DK tank without even doing any math just feeling it was not very good.

    finally ... how long till our mastery is so bad that secondary stats will not matter at all and pvp gear will be better, because I see this being a very real concern if next tier is not the last raid instance this expansion

    anyway enough of my 6am ramblings
    Last edited by Darksend; 07-15-2011 at 08:54 AM.



  6. #6
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    Re: Firelands BIS Gear: Feral Bear

    Ola guys one question why is the boe belt better than the honored version???? The rep belt has crit and mast isnt that better then the boe for norm bis t12

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    Quote Originally Posted by katarn
    Parasitic is worse than Flamebinder.

    However the Flickering Wristbands are better, yes.

    By the same token, Windstalker Belt is worse than Riplimb's. Sinestra's is better though.

    Ancient Petrified Leaf is also better for straight mitigation than either Spidersilk or Scales. However some of the heroic modes can have really high EH requirements, so definitely still keep them both around.
    372 parasitics (215agi/143mastery/142crit) are better than flamebinders (227agi/148crit/145exp). with the stat weights i got from the bear spreadsheet, crit is very slightly above expertise with mastery being a step above crit. 12 agi does not make up the difference between 143 mastery and 145 expertise, so parasitic bands are better from a mitigation standpoint (buffing sd absorbs).

    same arguement applies to 372 windstalker (crit/mastery version) versus riplimb's. i have riplimb's only because i was still using the crafted lw belt since random enchant loot is random and will most likely take you forever to get.

    there are two trinkets you can pick up off of the vendor, and since the vendor has a 100% drop chance i did not list them. stay of execution (383 dodge/on use absorb with dot thing) i plan on picking up to play around with. i might reforge the dodge to expertise or mastery or leave it as is. taking up to 57k off of one incoming attack could come in handy, even if it spreads some of the damage out over 10 seconds.

    the ancient leaf you mention is actually ancient petrified seed (383 mastery/on use:1277agi for 15 seconds on a 1min cd). i kind of view this one as more of a kitty trinket than a bear one. don't get me wrong, 1277 agi is a truckload however fluid death brings a static 380 agi as long as you keep attacking something for the whole fight. 380 agi static > 320 agi averaged over 1 minute.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    Personally, I am still using the 359 valor one with hit and stacking agi, and when I get the one off rag ... I am going to replace the heroic halfus one and keep using the 359 one because it is just that good and stacks up so fast it really does not matter.
    yes i still use that one on most fights and only replace it for a 2nd stam trinket if i feel i absolutely have to have more stam. i reforged the hit into expertise but dodge or leaving it as hit is fine, i consider it personal preference what you reforge or keep as is on fluid death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    I would rate heroic vial above non-firestoned scales, even though they have less HP I am finding that all 5 of the hard modes I have killed/tried so far require some pretty heavy burst avoidance and the heal on scales will not save you.
    when i need a stam trinket my first choice is to replace my h halfus trinket with heroic vial just because of the use effect comes in very handy on some fights. i did not list h vials it since it is a clear choice i think to use it over scales when you need a stam trinket, but i see scales having a purpose at some fight for some mechanic. i have yet to do heroic firelands however so no first hand experience if it is truely needed, but i have already decided to let the prot warrior take it first (maybe guilt since i have the only h vials that's dropped for us).

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    Also reforging 311 crit vs 264 haste (since you will not reforge the mastery) was worth giving up the 303 mastery since the gloves were such a close second....
    that is what it came down to me looking over the gear. i view haste as worthless for bears, even if it can proc fury swipes more often (more white swings = more fury swipes procs) i will probably pick up the gloves for when everything is on farm and i can wear some true cat gear to maximize dps for shits and gigs though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    you also do not list the spidersilk trinket at all, I passed it to my DK tank without even doing any math just feeling it was not very good.
    i did list it, but i view it as another situational trinket and another one that i will pass to the prot warrior first. might or might not come in handy down the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    finally ... how long till our mastery is so bad that secondary stats will not matter at all and pvp gear will be better, because I see this being a very real concern if next tier is not the last raid instance this expansion
    with the latest nerf to savage defense only reducing physical damage, mastery will probably be out of the window for us next tier and just shoot for the best agi/crit/expertise pieces we can get our furry paws on.

    Quote Originally Posted by njangblik
    Ola guys one question why is the boe belt better than the honored version???? The rep belt has crit and mast isnt that better then the boe for norm bis t12
    the rep belt is hit/haste, not crit/mastery. the boe belt is crit/expertise, which both stats are worth more for bears than hit/haste. crit and expertise increase the uptime/chance to proc savage defense. expertise also increases dps and tps much more than hit will if you are below the 26 soft cap. reducing parries as well as dodges at the same time is much more valuable than only reducing one thing (chance to miss). haste is worthless, literally. the only thing it does is reduce the white swing timer for a very very small increase in rage gen and gain slightly more white swings for added chance to proc fury swipes. since bears only have to deal with global cooldowns for dps/tps and since haste does not reduce the global cooldown, haste is the worst stat by a longshot for us to use.
    Last edited by Destruyen; 07-15-2011 at 06:33 AM.
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    Sorry jimmy, my post was directed at katarn. I kinda agree with him, you are rating secondary stats WAY to high.



  9. #9
    372 parasitics (215agi/143mastery/142crit) are better than flamebinders (227agi/148crit/145exp). with the stat weights i got from the bear spreadsheet, crit is very slightly above expertise with mastery being a step above crit. 12 agi does not make up the difference between 143 mastery and 145 expertise, so parasitic bands are better from a mitigation standpoint (buffing sd absorbs).
    You forgot armor, and to a lesser extent, Stamina.

    Using weights generated from my gear vs 175k unmit at 2s attack speed (Approximate Beth'tilac 10m normal), Flamebinder comes out very, very, very slightly ahead of Heroic Parasitic. And I mean very slightly. The difference is so small you'll hardly notice.

    Same deal for Windstalker vs Riplimb.

    We saw the same difference(s) in 353 vs 346.

    the ancient leaf you mention is actually ancient petrified seed (383 mastery/on use:1277agi for 15 seconds on a 1min cd). i kind of view this one as more of a kitty trinket than a bear one. don't get me wrong, 1277 agi is a truckload however fluid death brings a static 380 agi as long as you keep attacking something for the whole fight. 380 agi static > 320 agi averaged over 1 minute.
    The only problem is FD's value drops dramatically if your stacks reset, while Seed's value rises. There are a few instances in Firelands where this can happen:

    - Riplimb tank.
    - Beth tank.
    - Alysrazor (although to be fair on Alys it doesn't have any tangible impact).

  10. #10
    Wierd, can't edit my post for some reason.

    Anyways, just ran it with failbear BiS 359 gear, and got the same results. Flamebinder is still better than H-Parasitic. Although by like 1% or something absurdly tiny.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    Sorry jimmy, my post was directed at katarn. I kinda agree with him, you are rating secondary stats WAY to high.
    using a 1.8 second boss swing timer (1.5 * 1.2 for infected wounds) @ 185k dmg using my currently equipped gear i get these values for mitigation:



    is this spreadsheet way wrong or am i not factoring in something i should be?
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  12. #12
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    Not sure what I am looking at but I don't use spreadsheets I go by feel and listening to my healers.

    As for crit, as your dodge increases, crits approaches zero. Reason being that the more dodge you have, the less consistent vengeance is going to be. because of this, if you crit two attacks 8 seconds apart, the first one after dodging say 1 attack in the previous 10 seconds then dodging every attack until your next crit, a fully vengeanced savage defense with 2 seconds left is going to be replaced by one with almost no vengeance stacks but 10 seconds left. Also, since you are dodging so much, you naturally need less crit to maintain the same uptime on SD.

    So for me, once I get full heroic firelands gear I would go dodge>mastery>expertise>hit>crit>haste but I will never have math backing me up on that it just feels right in practice.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    dodge>mastery>expertise>hit>crit>haste
    i've been using dodge>mastery>crit=expertise>hit>haste since i switched my bear to my main. i started using the mitigation spreadsheet like a month ago just to be able to put a value on upgrades (coming from the mindset of someone who played a dps warrior last xpac, i like numbers and values).

    using the values on the mitigation spreadsheet it values mastery twice as much as crit and expertise, which is what i used to determine heroic parasitics and h windstalkers being better than flamebinders and riplimb's normal versions.

    i understand that to raise your crit cap and to increase the uptime of sd absorbs you need to start pushing dodges/parries/misses off the combat table via expertise and hit. this is why i reforged fluid death into expertise instead of dodge like i had in t11. i can also push to the 26 expertise soft cap from just reforging but i lose ~2% dodge. i don't feel comfortable right now losing that much dodge even if it would keep vengeance stacked higher.
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