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Thread: Treat T12 Normal like Heroic? Stamina is more valuable until we get more gear?

  1. #1
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    Treat T12 Normal like Heroic? Stamina is more valuable until we get more gear?

    Okay - I know the difference in gemming is pretty minimal - but I'm really thinking after downing Shannox and seeing the incoming damage that until I get a few drops, more stamina > ~1% block. There is just huge damage incoming and healers, at least in my raid, seem to be able to handle it for the most part...

    I'm loath to give up block, but I feel like I did tanking my first hard modes in 346/359 gear, that the unavoidable hits just hit BIG.

    Anyone else thinking that more or less?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  2. #2
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    I have gone full DPS gear on almost every fight, granted i had full 372 gear, but agi gems and agi trinkets all the way for me. (177K hp with fort food and agi flask if you want for comparison sake)



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    You're tanking fights like Shannox with the big dot potential and burst damage with 177k raid buffed health? O_O

    Wow. You must trust your healers impecably. I'm at a 190k raid buffed and not quite comfortable with some of the big hit potential - espcially if I make a mistake like blink and miss the immo trap on Shannox.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

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    If handled correctly neither tank should ever have more than 4 stacks of the bleed at Shannox, which is 12000 damage per 3 seconds, hardly something worth writing home about; the riplimb tank can, if executed correctly, remain under 3 stacks the entire fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrea View Post
    If handled correctly neither tank should ever have more than 4 stacks of the bleed at Shannox, which is 12000 damage per 3 seconds, hardly something worth writing home about; the riplimb tank can, if executed correctly, remain under 3 stacks the entire fight.
    If done right is the key - but if the DPS don't keep Riplimb slowed that can be problematic.

    However more important is his ability to burst for 100k. At least against my warrior I saw some huge hits. Now granted, most of those were the result of me failing to see the immo trap under my feet (my understanding is there was supposed to be some sort of blue circle that was supposed to form before the trap? Seems to me the immo traps only just appear and then take 2 seconds activate)...

    More key though is the damage in the burn phase, when the tank is taking 60% more hits that are 60% stronger plus eating magma ruptures.

    The sheer volume of damage then, even if you do things right, can be very, very large (and by do things right I mean raid-CDs being used during the magma rupture cast as well as a tank CD).
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

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    The traps spawn, and then 2 seconds later shannox arms them.

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    2 seconds should be plenty of time to get out of traps.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Way to focus on the small thing and not the bigger point. Yes, immo traps are avoidable (though mistakes do happen) but you're still looking at big P2 damage. Even if you position correctly (riplimb far away) and stay from immo traps you're still going to take some bursts in P2.

    Since mistakes do happen, especially early on - it feels to me that more health right now helps more, since most of the incoming damage is already fairly smooth, but there are bursts, especially with DBM/BigWig timers not fully there so you don't always get your raid CDs for all burst.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

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    The vast majority of the incoming damage on that fight is going to be melee, though, if you're doing it correctly. The DoT shouldn't be that much at all until the final phase, whereupon you have cooldowns to handle it. While I don't mind using a stamina trinket, I don't think you need 190k stamina to do this well. I sit at 180k raid buffed with an alch fortified stamina flask and 2 stamina trinkets. I just think that if you're uncomfortable at 190k HP, there's something avoidable going on.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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  10. #10
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    You also do 10m - 25m I can get 160k in incoming damage in one second (without immo traps) if an arcing slash lands right after a melee swing.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

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    so far I havent seen enough damage on either tank to make the call. In my oppinion I think stam "may" offer a slight advantage but only due to the amount of magic damage in some fights. However, It appears much of the tank damage can be avoided if the raid is executing the fight strats properly. As for the OP, I dont understand how stam would help the situation you have discribed. If your taking " big hits" as in melee hits, you simply want more block to reduce the damage. Even in the burn phase of shannox, you will have 2 tanks available. using a cd/taunt rotation would be far more effective then one of the tanks stacking stam.
    Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by truculent View Post
    so far I havent seen enough damage on either tank to make the call. In my oppinion I think stam "may" offer a slight advantage but only due to the amount of magic damage in some fights. However, It appears much of the tank damage can be avoided if the raid is executing the fight strats properly. As for the OP, I dont understand how stam would help the situation you have discribed. If your taking " big hits" as in melee hits, you simply want more block to reduce the damage. Even in the burn phase of shannox, you will have 2 tanks available. using a cd/taunt rotation would be far more effective then one of the tanks stacking stam.
    No taunts on Shannox.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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  13. #13
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    It should be tuned for 359 gear so i doubt we'll need to stack stam for normal modes, assuming we have a few pieces of 372. Might help if you mess up on new mechanics. Going to raid it tonight myself so i'll see if there is any spikedamage that makes me uncomfortable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    No taunts on Shannox.
    well, yea... but we were able to switch aggro positions in the last phase and the phase didnt last more then 1 tank switch. think the boss died about 20-30 seconds after the other tank took aggro.
    Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by truculent View Post
    well, yea... but we were able to switch aggro positions in the last phase and the phase didnt last more then 1 tank switch. think the boss died about 20-30 seconds after the other tank took aggro.
    That won't work on the standard "kite riplimb" 10 man strategy, because the offtank won't hit Shannox at all until phase 3.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
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  16. #16
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    [23:50:40.108] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 72143 (A: 2666)
    [23:50:52.448] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 79288
    [23:51:20.139] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 76063
    [23:51:31.185] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 58280
    [23:52:02.883] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 97930
    [23:52:13.913] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 66226 (A: 4002)
    [23:52:39.496] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 98214 (O: 8914)
    [23:52:54.262] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 44196
    [23:54:12.769] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 106995 (A: 2837)
    [23:54:23.788] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 85972
    [23:54:51.769] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 101242
    [23:55:04.015] Shannox Arcing Slash Shadowfiend 17233
    [23:55:41.932] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 70161
    [23:55:52.875] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 102936
    [23:56:24.656] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 109228
    [23:57:03.824] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 97981
    [23:57:16.050] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 81727
    [23:57:50.172] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 107855
    [23:58:01.092] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 61902 (A: 26530)
    [23:58:31.715] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 113203
    [23:58:43.917] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 93625 (A: 976)
    [23:59:03.898] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 87253
    [23:59:14.085] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 63351
    [23:59:25.036] Shannox Arcing Slash Loganisis 132091
    [00:00:00.370] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 85787
    [00:00:10.623] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 58910
    [00:00:22.476] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 49910
    [00:00:33.380] Shannox Arcing Slash Beldīn 24877 (O: 684632)

    From our kill (I lagged out after taking over as the tank, the healers kept me up for a minute without being able to hit any CDs).

    But as you can see, I was taking 100k arcing slashes and they were usually with 1 second of a 40k blocked melee hit or 70k unblocked melee hit.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    That won't work on the standard "kite riplimb" 10 man strategy, because the offtank won't hit Shannox at all until phase 3.
    Our 25m strat didn't really involve tank switches, it was more backup tanking. Tank switches aren't really necessary once you get it down.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    It should be tuned for 359 gear so i doubt we'll need to stack stam for normal modes, assuming we have a few pieces of 372. Might help if you mess up on new mechanics. Going to raid it tonight myself so i'll see if there is any spikedamage that makes me uncomfortable.
    Maybe I'm doing something wrong - probably am. In 25 it just seemed like there was some really big incoming damage bursts when a melee and arcing slash line up.

    It's not unmanagable - I'm just not comfortable at 190k raid buffed in 25m... :-/
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  19. #19
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    Maybe a better way to put this, then, is that in 25 man raids where there are very large incoming damage hits, and where you have lots of healers to get you back up to full after a very large hit, it makes sense to go for Stam on this fight. In 10 man, however, where the concern is more having your healers able to keep up with the damage without going OOM, it may make more sense to have a more balanced gearing strategy.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  20. #20
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    Why is it that you take 6 arcing slashes over 100k and Beldin only takes 1?

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