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Thread: Shannox

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigApe View Post
    is there a way to set the new range radar to 60 yds?
    tanking riplimb and sometimes, not sure if i'm far enough...

    also, last night's couple of attempts, the crystal traps did not spawn near me and rather, near shannox tank and hence had to swap positions in order for me to utilize it on riplimb...

    thoughts?
    1. Have ranged and healers at max range from Shannox so that any traps sent on them are closer to the OT than the MT. Since this will likely be slightly more than half of your raid, the majority of Crystal Prison Traps should spawn closer to you. Assuming half the raid is healers and ranged DPS and then add yourself the off tank there is the majority of traps should be closer to you (the main tank is also the only ineligible target for the Crystal Prison Trap however not an invalid target for Immolation Traps).

    2. Additionally, classes without a threat dump you may want to assign to Riplimb after Rageface dies so that they aren't building up threat on the boss which they can't get rid of later. Since this is often melee classes (DKs and Warriors) this puts even more targets for Crystal Prison Trap closer to where you are.

    Prior to the Rageface dying, the only one who has any restriction to being some set distance from the boss is the main tank healer(s) because naturally they have to maintain healing range. Everyone else can be further than them or closer to the OT. Since the range between Riplimp and the boss will be somewhere between 50-60 yards, even when DPS switches to the boss, those ranged DPS with 40 yard range can would still be closer to the off tank's position.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    I have a feeling that the "keep Shannox and Riplimb separated and kite riplimb through the crystal trap while he's retrieving the spear in order to drop stacks" strategy is probably the one that was intended by Blizzard. Blizzard hasn't had a taunt immune tank switching boss since... Hydross? And even Hydross had an aggro wipe, making tank switching easy.
    BLOODBOIL!!! Taunt immune boss that would do threat knock backs and disorients, required 2 tanks if you were really good, 3 tanks for most people. To this day probably one of my favorite fights to tankm, I think I'm BC biased though my favorite fight of all time to tank is Illidari Council (ret paladin specifically) one of the most unforgiving fights for a warrior tank.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Leviathan View Post
    Ok, the boss gains 30% dmg and attk speed buff per dog that dies. Both dogs enrage if the boss reaches 30% when they are still alive.

    The boss can only apply debuffs on the tank when he has his spear. Riplimb can't apply his debuff while he's retrieving the spear.

    For the sake of clarity I suggest we kill Rageface fast, and live with the 30% buff on the boss. Try to stand between Rageface and any immolation traps during this to ensure he hits as many of those as possible. Leave Crystal traps free for Riplimb. With 1 tank on the boss and the other on Riplimb spaced roughly 60 yards apart. The raid will be positioned between the 2. This means all traps will be dropped between 2 tanks making it far easier to line up trapping Riplimb and easily allow for both tanks to drop stacks every time the spear is thrown.

    Here's where my own little idea comes into play. Because the boss is untauntable but will continue to apply stacks after he hits 30%, I suggest that any class with an aggro drop dps the boss after Rageface dies, and those without an aggro drop dps Riplimb.

    Then when we are ready to push the final phase, everyone who was dpsing Shannox drop all or as much aggro as they can (vanish, feign, shatter, whatever) and allow the tank who was on Riplimb to quickly become 2nd threat on the boss while the dps without those abilities shouldn't have threat on Shannox at all. When/if the Shannox tank dies the next tank is lined up to hold him until we collect loot.

    Any thoughts on this?
    Threat persists through death and drop threat abilities. This was observed and posted on the EJ thread for rogue raid mechanics in 4.2

    Vanish seems currently unable to drop threat on this boss, even being killed and combat ressing does not drop threat, it is not clear if this is intended mechanics or just a bug at this stage.
    It seems that this is intended to avoid using the strategy you have suggested.

  4. #44
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    hi a little question what program are you all using to film ingame?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by inoue View Post
    hi a little question what program are you all using to film ingame?
    Most, if not all, of the video guide authors use FRAPS for the actual recording. This product does have a price tag however its a one time fee with a lifetime subscription to any updates. Editing tools beyond that may vary a bit more from author to author. If you have more questions about video recording/editing I recommend searching in the Tech Central forums first to see if it's already been asked or addressed and if not posting your questions there.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  6. #46
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    If you have an arcane mage, put him on rageface.

    While Rageface is face-raging, all attacks on him will crit, and an arcane blast crit is always above 30k.

    When we kill him, I (Arcane mage) just stay on rageface the entire time, while other dps is spread on riplimb and shannox. This way rageface will never face-rage for longer than it takes to cast an arcane blast. When I have gotten rageface to 35% the other two are usually at around the same hp.

    PS: we do it 10man

  7. #47
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    How to Kill Shannox on 10N (tanking included)

    I couldn't believe how many critical details are left out of all the various guides, videos, etc. Most of these are 25M kills which is fairly easy. 10 is significantly harder, until you realize a couple of key details.

    1. Mark out 2 locations to tank Riplimb and Shannox. We used marks that were 55 yards apart (use the range finder to set these up by typing /range).

    2. Have all DPS focus on rageface (who is the biggest RNG factor in 10 man).

    3. Healers should stand about equidistant from the two tanks, but not on a straight line path between them. This is to prevent riplimb from running through immolation traps (which triggers a long immunity to all traps) when you're not actively trying to clear stacks.

    4. The riplimb tank will need traps to use on riplimb, so set up your ranged DPS close to where riplimb is to be tanked. This should supply enough crystal traps to clear the debuff.

    5. DBM will tell you when crystal traps are spawning on a player near you. Also, look carefully at the traps and you'll see a crimson animation inside them that is different from the immolation traps. Those are the crystal traps.

    6. When stacks approach 6-7, it's time to clear. As soon as the ground animation for the spear throw location appears, kite riplimb into a crystal trap. If riplimb is released and it feels like it's going to be too soon, have the shannox tank kite shannox away from riplimb, delaying his return (do not allow them to become more than 60 yards apart, or they will get a massive speed and damage boost).

    7. DPS should kill rageface first, then proceed to burn down riplimb to about 10%. DPS should then focus shannox down to about 33%, at which time dps should finish off riplimb, then switch back to shannox.

    Don't hesitate to clear the debuff more often if your healers are having trouble. Riplimb in the trap more means lower average stacks and no riplimb damage. Tanks with higher stacks should chain cooldowns together instead of saving them, as there is no big hitting moment in the fight. If you can't figure out why riplimb won't freeze, make sure that he doesn't have the wary debuff (from standing in another trap like an immolation one).

    Once you "get" this fight, it's amazing how easy it becomes.
    Last edited by jason1975; 07-22-2011 at 12:20 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigApe View Post
    is there a way to set the new range radar to 60 yds?
    tanking riplimb and sometimes, not sure if i'm far enough...
    What we do is the addition method for marking.

    1. Mark the first tank's spot, then set your range to 20 yards.
    2. Have a player stand on the mark, move until that player is exactly 20 yards away.
    3. Have the player move (or someone else) to stand where you are.
    4. Move in a straight line away from the original mark until that player is 20 yards away (you're now at 40 yards away from the original mark).

    Rinse and repeat until you get to 60 yards (we use 55 just to be safe with the separation anxiety buff they get). You can also do this twice with the range set to 28 yards (max range).

  9. #49
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    I dont approve of killing Rageface first, since he is quite easy to deal with, and you dont have that option on heroic, so you might aswell get use to dealing with him right away. On heroic though, Rageface is a bitch! Is there any good way to avoid getting him into immolation traps all the time? (since he is jumping around all the time, it seems that he keeps running into immolation traps). I have had a hard time testing this for myself; anyone who knows, if, when I break his face-rage, and he fixates on me, I kite him to trap... when he gets out of the trap again, will he keep staying on me?

  10. #50
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    Question about 10 man, is there any reason not to kill Riplimb right off the bat so both tanks can handle Shannox and Jagged Tear?

  11. #51
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    Because as soon as Riplimb is dead, the boss start stacking an ever increasing fire damage taken debuff on the raid each time he sticks his spear in the ground. This serves as the soft enrage mechanic of the encounter and why you want the Riplimb in particular to die as close to 30% on the boss as possible on normal mode.

    Magma Rupture

    Most raids are adopting the method of freezing Riplimb when the spear is thrown in order to reset the debuff stacks, this is becoming the standard approach to that particular problem.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  12. #52
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    We have been using the approach of having one tank on Shannox and one on Riplimb until Riplimb goes down (with Shannox around 30%). The problem we face is that, in phase 2, the Riplimb tank has built up no threat on Shannox while everyone else has lots. Should the main tank die in phase 2, the Riplimb tank has no way to grab Shannox (immune to taunt) and watches helplessly while Shannox murders the DPS and leaves him for last.

    Any ideas on how the Riplimb tank might be able to build a little threat throughout the course of the fight so that he could provide a "safety net" in phase 2, should the main tank be killed?

  13. #53
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    The boss should die before the main tank dies on normal difficulty. You shouldn't actually require a off tank on Shannox if executed correctly. If your tank is dying they either had too many stacks of the debuff going into the final burn, you killed Riplimp too early, not using cooldowns properly as damage from Magma Rupture ramps up, or they are taking unnecessary damage such as not backing out of the insta gib of Magma Rupture's point blank range effect. You may want to check a death log to see what is actually killing your tank. If you see things like Magma Rupture hitting for like 100k twice in under a second, they stood in the point blank range attack when the boss rams his spear into the ground right on the tanks head. There is a cast timer for this and they need to actually move out of it or they will die for sure.

    If executed correctly, no one should die on the Shannox encounter. You shouldn't actually need a tank to be second in threat going into the final burn on normal difficulty.
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 07-29-2011 at 09:32 AM.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  14. #54
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    A few tips for running this on ten man with two tanks:

    1) The Shannox tank can kite him when Riplimb is returning the spear to get extra time to drop the stacks.
    2) I usually tank Riplimb, but did the fight once on my Holy Priest and found that the Body and Soul talent (movement speed increase for the target of your PW:S) was amazing for tanks running around trying to drop stacks.
    3) When Riplimb is about to die, we move Shannox so that we can go into the last phase in an area that isn't covered in traps.
    4) If you get the latest DBM, it now gives an audio warning when a trap appears under you - one less thing for your eyes to track
    How does a PC gamer change a light bulb? He doesn't. He goes on the forums and QQs about it being dark.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snezzlin View Post
    Threat persists through death and drop threat abilities. This was observed and posted on the EJ thread for rogue raid mechanics in 4.2
    It seems that this is intended to avoid using the strategy you have suggested.
    It doesn't really matter. It's incredibly easy to do this fight with 1 tank on the boss and 1 on Riplimb the entire time. Just reset stacks by trapping Riplimb from time to time and certainly before killing the second dog.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinkakan View Post
    Is there any good way to avoid getting him into immolation traps all the time? (since he is jumping around all the time, it seems that he keeps running into immolation traps). I have had a hard time testing this for myself; anyone who knows, if, when I break his face-rage, and he fixates on me, I kite him to trap... when he gets out of the trap again, will he keep staying on me?
    Since he ignores traps while carrying the spear, all you have to make sure of is you don't have any between you and him on his way back. You have control of his path BACK to the tank. That's when he'll hit traps.

  17. #57
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    why bother with the traps ? - if riblimb is tanked far enough aways from the tank , and kitted to the raid(away from the spear) as soon as the spear is about to land , the time he uses to get back to the spear then turn and move back to shannox the tear stack should drop of both tanks if done right , if need asign on dps to slow riblimb on his way to the tank.
    have a look at this vid to see the thing in action - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QvOp1DGxrA

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dras View Post
    why bother with the traps ?
    The number one foremost reason is that I would believe this is the intended way of executing the encounter. Since they made it that they can be trapped and the traps will very reliably reset debuff stacks. Separation Anxiety was added to the encounter after it's initial release to prevent the tactic which trivialized the mechanic to the point where the tank had to move very little by simply tanking them very far apart. With the 60 yard range while the method of not trapping and simply maximizing the travel distance within that 60 yard range may not be their intended method, at least it still requires significant tank movement for the Riplimb tank (which was Blizzard's core concern). However if they feel the need to push you into the trapping method, all they need to do is shorten the range further.

    Because the traps can be used, and likely were intended to be used, any retuning Blizzard would do would likely continue to have this method be viable, however may result in other methods becoming unviable. I don't believe they would change it further however since as I've already mentioned, their core concern was that the Riplimb tank wasn't doing as much work as they intended for them on this encounter and since the alternate method you use still requires significant movement by the Riplimb tank it is likely an acceptable alternative in the eyes of Blizzard.

    Both methods are viable today and will likely remain viable since neither completely trivializes the role of the Riplimb tank. My personal recommendation is to use the trapping method. However there are no major issues with the alternative. So long as a tactic doesn't trivialize a core mechanic or role in the encounter it will likely remain viable.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  19. #59
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    Does anyone know what happens if you kill Riplimb while Shannox does not have his spear? Does Shannox just go get the spear himself? Is it even possible? It seems like a good trick to avoid the Magma Rupture...I suspect it doesn't work though? =)

  20. #60
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    there is no change in the last phace , we tried it - rib dead , and he gets his spear back , seems like magma rupture is there to stay

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