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Thread: PST - Episode 35

  1. #1

    PST - Episode 35

    Extra long episode this week!



    This week:
    1:13 - Should Blizzard build more addons into the game?
    8:06 - Why aren't more people using Mumble?
    12:37 - Should we really have to pay $25 to transfer servers?
    19:00 - Should Blizzard make a Shaman tanking spec?
    22:54 - What did you mean by "original" content for future expansions?
    26:41 - How can I tell whether I'm a casual or hardcore player?
    31:15 - Was there just too much content in Tier 11?
    41:46 - What would you do for a Klondike bar?

  2. #2
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    'bout time! =P
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  3. #3
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    I propose a new approach to the casual vs hardcore discussion by coming up with a new universal solution... We need a smiley face scale.

    Like the pain scale at the doctor's office...



    On the more casual end of our new smiley face scale we can have a smiley face with a beer dispensing helmet. On the more hardcore end we can have a smiley face with Lore's hair. Artists, get to work. We need to finally put a close to this debate.
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 06-26-2011 at 12:55 PM.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  4. #4
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    But where would Bov fit in? O_O How can a casual raider be 13/13 =P

    Really, the contextual arguement he made about compartive temps is right on. If it's freezing and you walk into a room at 60, that is hot. If it's 100 and you walk into a room that's cold.

    If you don't raid normals because it takes more time than you want to put in, then raiding is hard core. If you're into heroic bosses within 2 weeks of patch dropping then normal mode raiding is casual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obi-Wan
    Luke, you will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  5. #5
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    From the second last question I believe its time to write your answers out!

  6. #6
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8OBlq_svBY

    In case anyone was looking for it @ "Under the Sea"

  7. #7
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    If even "hardcore" players are unable to clear the content in 7.5 months, clearly some content was going to waste. Lore says that boredom had already set in as well.

    So let's see what the solution there might be to avoid this sort of problem in the future.... I know, more frequent, smaller releases!

    I know the Blizzard bashing is a key part of the whole Lore mystique, but even a quick glance at the chronology makes Blizzard's efforts look laudable.
    1. Cata comes out with literally thousands of new quests, perfect time to start playing, or to start a new toon. Few raiders bite.
    2. Players weren't clearing content. Solution: don't release new raid content until they're ready. (Keep in mind that most players who joined in the last 3 years never ran the Troll raids... and that's what they were/are.)
    3. Players still don't seem to be clearing content.
    4. Blizzard gives up on players ever being "ready" switches to a new development cycle.
    5. Just a couple months after a rather sizable "gameplay" patch, a new raiding patch drops.
    6. Patch 4.3 goes up on PTR less than 2 weeks after 4.2 goes up on live (wait and see).
    7. Lore and crew find a new thing to complain about, never look back on how Blizzard aptly addressed their concerns in the past.

  8. #8
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    In my own experience, content is harder to clear later in the tier simply because people no longer fear/respect the encounter well enough to give the attention to mechanics or give the effort they did when they first approached the fight. Paradoxically, farm content can be more wipe-heavy than progression encounters at times.

    But as far as the Shaman taunt... on my Hunter I will if necessary use Distracting shot to taunt a mob off the tank so the healer can catch up a little, and use Deterence/Feign Death to negate any damage I would have taken... But I would never recommend tactics like that to 99.9% of the playerbase simply because of a general lack of game mechanics knowledge in today's players.

    It is a nice way to make use of a trap that misses the first time too

  9. #9
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    Casual vs. Hardcore:
    "Our brain has one scale, and we just resizes our experiences to fit.
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by notnato View Post
    1. Cata comes out with literally thousands of new quests, perfect time to start playing, or to start a new toon. Few raiders bite.
    2. Players weren't clearing content. Solution: don't release new raid content until they're ready. (Keep in mind that most players who joined in the last 3 years never ran the Troll raids... and that's what they were/are.)
    3. Players still don't seem to be clearing content.
    4. Blizzard gives up on players ever being "ready" switches to a new development cycle.
    5. Just a couple months after a rather sizable "gameplay" patch, a new raiding patch drops.
    1. Even players who joined in wrath but put in the time most/all of their alts well past the revamped 1-60 leveling content. It's a great idea, but if you're just leveling alts, you don't really care. It's a lot of time spent on a phase of the game most players are just trying to burn through. It's busy work, prettier, but still nothing but busy work. It's not content for the majority of the player base.

    2. It's fine if players don't clear content. You don't need to hold back new content because people aren't clearing hard modes. There's only so much bashing your head into a wall that you want to. I'm 'only' 5/13, but I'm bored out of my mind with the same fail points every week. I'd love to kill Sinestra, but not as much as I want something new to work through rather than pounding the same wall.

    3. See #2

    4. See #2 - Players are 'done' with content sometimes before clearing it.

    5. What sizeable gameplay patch? You're calling 2 heroics sizeable? Sorry, our definitions of sizeable are sizeably different.

    7.5 months of the same content with the only content released being heroics half a tier back is just too long. It's basically been ICC all over again. Either you can down the hard modes or not. Extending the time period isn't going to change much. If anything, Blizz should look at when player progression stagnates. When that happens, the life of the tier as 'interesting' has been dead, and probably died a while ago.

    T11 hasn't been interesting in months.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kemanorel View Post
    But as far as the Shaman taunt... on my Hunter I will if necessary use Distracting shot to taunt a mob off the tank so the healer can catch up a little, and use Deterence/Feign Death to negate any damage I would have taken... But I would never recommend tactics like that to 99.9% of the playerbase simply because of a general lack of game mechanics knowledge in today's players.

    It is a nice way to make use of a trap that misses the first time too
    This is imo why shammies have a taunt now.

  12. #12
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    Shaman taunt

    The problem with the idea that the shaman taunt is useful to save a tank is rather far fetched.

    First: no proper shaman is using Rockbiter at the start of an encounter, which means if the shammy sees the tank in trouble and is able to assess that he/she'd be safe with one add it would take 2 GCDs to taunt (casting Rockbiter and then Unleashing it). If you add in the average reaction time and the fact that they probably aren't used to doing it the tank will probably be dead by then anyway or any other player they are trying to taunt off of.

    Second: only Enhancement and Restoration Shaman have the capability to self heal without a significant sacrifice in their regular role. This means if you're Elemental and taunt the healer is going to have to split his/her focus. As Restoration you will have the tank Earth Shielded which means you'll suffer from spell pushback making healing take longer which could kill the tank regardless. As Enhancement you are likely popping Rage and Wolves and if need be using Maelstroms on Greater Healing Wave to keep the healer from being overloaded.

    Third: Shaman's have Hex/Bind Elemental, if someone screws up and pulls too many its so much more simple to CC one than taunt it. 90% of the time there is at least one humanoid or elemental within a trash pull in heroic dungeons.

    TL;DR: Shaman taunt is pretty useless right now.

  13. #13
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    As far as Shaman tanking not being viable past SM....I'd like to agree with you. Unfortunately, my friend (who desperately wants to tank on his Sham) showed me this (Sharicasmi's YouTube Channel) during our ICC days. Of course, the Sham was decked with nothing but Stam and Dodge (or maybe it was Defense - I can't recall anymore) gems at the time and I have no idea if he even still plays, but it WAS done.

  14. #14
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    I agree that mumble is pretty fast. Especially compared to ventrillo, which from my experience is a crap program. However, mumble does have its own problems. Its UI is not exactly user-friendly. I found it quite confusing myself, and I am not a total stranger to installing and setting up voice-com programs. Also, sound quality, at least for the server I was using for my guild, was sub-par and many times we had issues with people lagging and/or sounding like robots.

    I do very strongly believe that TS3 is the best alternative. Maybe it's a bit slower than mumble, but it's definitely faster than ventrillo. Speed-wise, it's pretty much like skype, which is maybe not fast enough for an FPS game, especially at top level, but for WoW raiding, we never had a problem with stuff not reaching us in time. Not to mention that I personally find it much easier to set up. Really believe it's the superior program for raiding. The only downside is that it costs more. But I can sacrifice 10 more bucks for top quality.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Valaras View Post
    I agree that mumble is pretty fast. Especially compared to ventrillo, which from my experience is a crap program. However, mumble does have its own problems. Its UI is not exactly user-friendly. I found it quite confusing myself, and I am not a total stranger to installing and setting up voice-com programs. Also, sound quality, at least for the server I was using for my guild, was sub-par and many times we had issues with people lagging and/or sounding like robots.
    There are two things that can cause the robot voice issue to happen. The first one is the user has their voice quality settings set to high and they need to lower them. The second is the server does not have enough bandwidth to to deal with how many users are currently online. If you are paying for a server I'd immediately toss out the second as a possible cause personally most voice chat hosts make sure they have enough bandwidth to support what they sell.

    As for the UI, make suggestions to the devs. Unlike Vent the Mumble devs are approachable and listen to complaints and concerns. You say you don't care for the UI, go to their forums and state your issues. As of a few days ago they were talking about making the audio setup wizard have better default settings so that if people don't pay attention and just click next next next they will not sound so terrible. Personally I don't find Mumble's UI confusing at all but I am not your typical computer user. I always have Advanced Settings checked so I can do more fine tuning of the setup in mumble.

    As far as TS3 goes, you can host a non-profit server for free and get comparable speed but TS3 has been scrapped and totally restarted at least 3 times in its development and still hasn't put at an RC the last time I checked.

  16. #16
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    i think what he was trying to get at is.

    theres normal and heroic versions of the same boss. technically, its not new "content" in terms of the word. because it is the Same boss just with different mechanics. he is in the same room as he is in the normal mode.

  17. #17
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    I don't know why more people don't seem to get why shaman have a taunt. I think the blue post was horrible and I highly doubt that was the reason developers had for doing it.

    Shaman have a taunt for the same reason other ranged dps have a taunt (like warlocks and hunters). There have been and likely will be bosses again in the future that require a ranged tank. Rockbiter gives elemental shaman the tool needed to perform that role.

    If there is a new boss with non-AoE kiting, elemental shaman using the taunt and frost shock kiting works. Elemental shaman make excellent kiters on Blackrock Caverns - Ascendant Lord Obsidius, with use of rockbiter you can cover for a tank cleaving even. Some raids used elemental shaman to frost shock kite adds in Serpentshrine Cavern - Lady Vashj.

    Example of bosses in the past where this kind of tool was useful are Ahn'Qiraj - Twin Emperors, Gruul's Lair - High King Maulgar, and Serpentshrine Cavern - Leotheras the Blind. It wouldn't have helped for Black Temple - Illidari Council as that required a mage to spellsteal the dampen magic buff.

    Another use for it is when leveling as an enhancement shaman with a high dps caster that keeps pulling aggro off you. Rather than constantly chasing after mobs you can just swap on rockbiter. For 2-player questing, the enhancement shaman makes a better tank than a mage does for example.

    Please stop asking for tools to be removed from a class. If you don't know how to use that feature, take it off your bar, but don't ask for it to be taken away when other players do find uses for it.

  18. #18
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    About Shaman taunt.


    As a resto shaman i actually use it quite often. We're almost running only normal modes, i guess i wouldn't use it as often in heroic content.

    3 situations when i taunt in raid :
    1. Cho'gall adds to make them die in the middle of voids, stacking them.
    2. When Anshal has his full stack (after his ultimate ability), the tank gets to max range, after a few seconds i taunt the boss, when he's about to get close enough to hit me, the tank taunts back. This way Anshal doesn't make a blow with his buff stacked.
    3. When Nefarian's constructs are on tanks, i taunt them to help our "kiter", it's easier for him to pick an add in the middle of the raid than next to Onyxia/Nefarian's head.
    As i said, my guild almost only runs normal modes (with heroic halfus) and i often have to do a little "extra" to get the boss down (taking care of dispells/interrupts/slowing mobs/taunts etc myself) and i thank blizzard for having added this tool to shamans.

    Blizzard has done encounters where it would have been useful, as Gluth or Mimiron. With more ranged tanks, they can do more fights (or phases) like these.

    If my post wasn't clear or understandable, i apologize, english is not my natively spoken language.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by notnato View Post
    I know the Blizzard bashing is a key part of the whole Lore mystique
    You must be a new viewer

    I've been a firm supporter of everything Blizzard has done up until the past 3 or 4 months when they started doing stupid crap.

  20. #20
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    Yeah, time to start inserting "Kids" into the plot line and start growing them up. Prince Wrynn needs to have some adventures and there should be "young" emerging leaders in all the factions. It would be interesting to start Phasing various servers according to how the overall quests, BG's and other events are turning out. Have something that shows that your quests/ actions really do eventually have an effect on the game world..... The content needs to advance, also it might be a good idea to have stepped servers? Vanilla for those who want to do the old content and so on. On PVP servers you could have things phased in such a way that the level 40+ gankers simply are out of phase with the 30- lowbies so you still get PVP but it is less...........

    Yes, mobility between servers would be nice to improve, make the price of a transfer 10-15$, ther should be a means of limiting the transfers and help discourage "Ninja loot and change server" routine.

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