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Thread: Prot Warrior threat issues

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Prot Warrior threat issues

    Link to my armory.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n/navox/simple

    Issue:
    Threat is just being ripped off of me even after I have had enough time.

    Rotation: BS > Recklessness, DS > Heroic Throw > Charge > Shield Slam > Revenge > Rend (tclap) > Shockwave> Devastate to 3 stacks > Spam Heroic Strike.

    Even with this rotation, the druid I tank with will still rip the target off of me. I thought that my hit and exp were low so I changed up my stats, well while my threat improved when I changed my stats over to hit and exp, I was just harder to heal and ended up dead on pulls.

    I downloaded the spreadsheet not ever having used it before and I entered in all of my unbuffed stats on the first page. In the rotation tab of the spreadsheet the numbers in there never change so i figure I am doing something incorrect here. I just do not know how to read this.

    I keep reading this primer over and over
    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

    I am just looking for some help. I had to take up the role of a tank since we lost one and Its frustrating as hell when I am unable to maintain threat.

  2. #2
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    I can't look at your armory at work but your rotation, if it's single target should be changed. BS>Recklessness>DS>Heroic Throw>Charge>Shield Slam>Dev>Dev. Rend and TC and Shockwave aren't as strong on threat at the start of the fight. Recklessness isn't required and for some fights it maybe even a bad idea. Once you have some vengence stacks using shockwave and CB are good ideas. There are several threads on a 4 gcd cycle around here as well. Do not gem/enchant/gear for hit/expertise period.

  3. #3
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    Clarifying acronyms.
    BS=battle shout (you have a priest or warlock; otherwise you should be using commanding shout even if you don't have a shaman or DK).
    DS=Demo Shout? This should be further down the rotation if it is. Definitely past heroic Throw, you should HT when you are far away, outside shout range. Target the TClap area.

    -Shield Block works wonder on buffing Shield Slam. I'm hoping you are doing that before your first Shield Slam.
    -I don't see concussive blow. It's a big TPS item
    -I'm hoping you get a few Sword and Board procs, should always be high priority over everything else.
    -Watch your vengeance stack, and I'm assuming the bear has your vigilence. Bears end up soaking a lot of damage, getting 20% of that won't solve problems, but it sure helps.
    -Try and space out the Tclap out a little bit, aside from reducing incoming damage, it also refreshes rend, and doing it right after you apply rend is a bit of a waste.

    On an unrelated note, you are reforging to mastery (which is good), but gemming for stam. I think you should still be gemming mainly for mastery, that will help your survival while you figure stuff out, unless you are dying to non-physical stuff.

  4. #4
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    Your opening should be:

    Recklessness>defstance>battleshout>pot>defstance>c harge+shieldblock+zerker rage+heroic throw>shield slam.

    your rotation is built around a 4GCD cycle. It restarts at the first GCD whenever Sword and Board (SnB) procs.

    1. Shield slam
    2. Devastate
    3. Devastate
    4. Other

    Other is either Concussion Blow, Heroic throw, Shockwave, if you aren't saving them for utility.Demoshout, thunderclap can also be used here to keep those Debuffs up though feel free to break they cycle to achieve maximal uptime on debuffs. If you have somone supplying a +30% beed damage debuff to your target you should also use Rend in this GCD, let it tick at least 5 times before refreshing it. If all thats either up or cd use Dev. whatever happens unless you need to stop DPS to avoid a mechanic, never leave a gcd open.

    If you have above 50 rage use heroric strike while continuing the above rotation, if you find you don't have enough rage to maintain the rotation start using revenge in place of Devastate.

    Gems are just wrong, you don't need to gem stam unless you're transitioning from normal to HC raids. you should more or less depeding on how much you value the socket bonuses gem as much mastery as possible, generally

    Meta: eternal shadowspirit diamons
    Red: fine ember topaz
    Yellow: fractured amberjewel
    Blue: Puissant Dream emerald

    Reforging, you also want as much mastery as possible here reforge Crit,hit,expertise,Haste, into mastery where possible., if you can't reforge to mastery, reforge to parry or dodge. ideall you want to reforge parry and Dodge into mastery aswell. you generally want your parry chance to be 1-3% higher than your Dodge chance, less than that and you will lower you're hold the line uptime, more and your dimishining returns on parry rating make it wastful.

    Swap glyph of resonating Power to glyph of thunderclap. Rage should not be an issue.

    you may want to consider Lavalwalker or earthen vitality boot enchants, while this won't help you with threat, mobility is always good. Swap hurricane for either a windwalk, or if you're feeling cheap a pyrium weapon chain.

  5. #5
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    I think DS here means defensive stance.

    Change your opening to "Charge + Shield Block" -> Shield Slam, not just charge. Single target Dev > Rev now apparently (it's close either way)

    However "Devastate to 3 stacks" is doing it wrong. --> Rotation is basically SS > Dev > Dev > free GCD (Concussion Blow and Shockwave will be preferred here). Start over with SS as soon as you get a SnB proc. Don't worry about applying 3 stacks of sunder right away.

    ***

    Resonating Power is a bad glyph. Glyph of Thunderclap is better.

    Heart of rage is a bad trinket for tanks - grab the TB mirror.

    If threat is an issue - you can try pre-potting with Golemsblood potions for extra AP.

    What fights are you having threat issues with? Is the druid a druid tank, or a cat/boomkin druid you tank with? More information about the fights in general will help too.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Gems are just wrong, you don't need to gem stam unless you're transitioning from normal to HC raids. you should more or less depeding on how much you value the socket bonuses gem as much mastery as possible, generally
    If they're not working on Nef, true. Maybe it's just my expereince, but I found more stam was very helpful in that fight when I was in mostly 359s with a few 346s just because of the way krackles and tail whipped healers would line up, and that was alternatining Mirror and SB for crackles.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  7. #7
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    I found i have enough stam with just a stam trinket. but then i kept SB for breaths while or shortly after ony had to be tunred and alternated Mirror and shield wall for crackles.

    EDIT:take home story, only stack stam on fights where un avoidable or unmitigatable mechanics insta-gib you.

  8. #8
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    I need to change some things around I see.

    We are working on Cho'Gall and about to start on Nef 10man normal.

    The Druid I tank with is a feral tank spec, hes pretty awesome with threat. Shooting straight, I was stacking stamina because I ran the numbers through rawr and was going off of what the program was telling me to do for overall.

    My rotation also needs work and I need to keep an eye on vengeance stacks which I haven't been doing.

    I can't thank all of you enough. I appreciate each of you for taking the time and giving me constructive feedback.

  9. #9
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    Ok, 4.2 is out I changed up my rotation so I am able to maintain threat in 5 mans groups without any issues what so ever, thank you tankspot community for that help however, I am still having issues with the secondary druid tank in my raid group.

    We can tank and I will start off and the druid will also start attacking then I can see his threat keep rising up on omen. Then over vent "HEY! I still keep ripping threat off you!" I am at my wits end.. So I just make him be the main tank and I offtank.

    My question is in regards to vengeance, I have to have mobs beating on me in order for this to stack to where I am outputting the most dmg needed to maintain and gain threat correct or incorrect? Do I need to just not have the druid engage on fights where I need to gain threat? Is my spec off at all? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n/Navox/simple

  10. #10
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    Either you, or the target of your Vigilance has to be taking damage for you to stack vengence, as a warrior you also need them beating on you for rage, without something actually putting our life at risk we'll struggle to pull above maybe 6k

    On your specyou want to pick up Deep wounds. For me it equates to about +5% more damage, its great in both AoE and single target situations. You don't need gag order. single target builds can survive without Blood and thunder or thunderstruck, and even Imp.revenge if you don't need the rage effiiciency. In an AoE build you can survive without cruelty.

    I would also pick up Glyph of Berserker Rage, % extra rage every 30 seconds isn't alot, but its the only minor glyph with any sort of TPS increase, on most boss fight you can pretty much burn Zerker rage on CD anyway.

    As to druid CoTanks, if he pops berserk on the pull you're basically screwed and he needs to learn that tanking is not about max TPS, but threat control, that's as much about keeping mobs off the Healers (and DPS if you like them) as it is about not taking threat off another tank inappropriatly. If he's not meant to have aggro, he should be in Cat form. If he's meant to be tanking something else he should be concentrating on tanking that, not building threat on your assigned target.

    You seem to have alot of Expertise, this coupled with your apparent threat problems seems to indicate you're not using Heroic strike enough. HS should be about 30% of your damage on approriate content. Is it?

  11. #11
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    Prot Warrior threat issues

    I am not making an accusation, but you might want to watch for this...

    Is the bear using berserk while you are supposed to maintain threat? Warriors don't have anything like berserk and it would be EXPECTED for him to rip aggro if he is doing that.

    It's just that as I hear this, it sounds like he is disgruntled if he's calling you out in vent. If dps is not passing you, the other tank should be good enough to NOT pull threat and make this smooth.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    I am not making an accusation, but you might want to watch for this...

    Is the bear using berserk while you are supposed to maintain threat? Warriors don't have anything like berserk and it would be EXPECTED for him to rip aggro if he is doing that.

    It's just that as I hear this, it sounds like he is disgruntled if he's calling you out in vent. If dps is not passing you, the other tank should be good enough to NOT pull threat and make this smooth.

    this ^

    the only other thing I can think of is drop rev out of your talents and rotation all together, but this is generally the case 9 times out of 10.
    Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably

  13. #13
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    I don't find that viable; once you start over gearing the content, even slightly, you can rage starve yourself real easy and that means less heroic strikes, and at high vengenace you only need to convert an extra 3 rage per minute into Heroic strikes for HS to make up the defference TPS of replacing Dev with Rev at every opportunity.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    I don't find that viable; once you start over gearing the content, even slightly, you can rage starve yourself real easy and that means less heroic strikes, and at high vengenace you only need to convert an extra 3 rage per minute into Heroic strikes for HS to make up the defference TPS of replacing Dev with Rev at every opportunity.

    your not rage starving on a raid setting. Thats rubbish. With inner rage up while spamming HS the entire time (and im in 378 gear) Im still not rage starved. Dev is better then rev. Even more so as vengeance stacks because rev scales badly at the moment with ap, far worse then dev.
    Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably

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