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Thread: Was having issues with our bear tank tonight...advice?

  1. #1
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    Was having issues with our bear tank tonight...advice?

    I don't have a log, I'll get one tomorrow night for sure. So just some general advice would be helpful.

    We're on 10m normal Nef and I'm (pally) tanking onyxia at the start of phase 1 with the bear tanking nef and a fury war in tank gear kiting/tanking adds. Anyways, we were having issues with the bear taking just insane amounts of spike damage and she's not stam stacked. We even decided to switch the shammy healer over to me and the pally healer to the bear because his heals were bigger, etc. Our shammy healer knows shammies aren't tank healers but he can tank heal all day long and he couldn't keep her up.

    Well, we did manage p2 a few attempts and actually got into p3 a few attempts so we're getting there, but there were a lot of issues with the healing on the bear. Anyone have any insight on bears on nef normal?

    Any advice I can pass on to em and I'll be sure to post a log for tomorrow since I think the same thing is going to happen. Also, she denies being hard to heal for some reason.
    Last edited by BryceE; 06-11-2011 at 10:55 AM.

  2. #2
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    Link to armory? Were the damage spikes around Krackles or when ony tail-swipped the healers?
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  3. #3
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    If I recall right, it wasn't around crackles or tail swipes. All would be fine and boom, she takes a 90k+ hit. Me, on the other hand, only time I take something like that is when there's a crackle/breath and I don't have anything to really mitigate it.

    Here's the armory of the person: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nthus/advanced

  4. #4
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    90K a hit in normal phase 1 seems a bit exaggerated, she has the same if not better gear then when I killed it on normal the first time. I had a thought and now I can pretty much confirm it by asking, who was tanking phase 3?

    Because I bet she was in cat spec, link/check the logs for damage done by pulverize. If you dont see any, she is missing 12% reduction and something like 50% armor in bear form for being in cat spec to cheese damage in phase 2 and 3.



  5. #5
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    She's wearing her cat gear right now, i guess (hope) she's using a stamina trinket + mirror on nef? With that gear she's only at 157k raidbuffed maximum.

    90k hits aren't regulary possible, Nef is hitting for 40k top end excluding your absorbs. So 90k only during the time of positioning (= +100% damage buff on both of them).

  6. #6
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    If Darksend is right, and she was in her Cat spec, she would also be crittable, which would explain the 90ks

  7. #7
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    We're on nef too and using bear/pally tank and pally, shammy and druid as heals. We have the bear on Ony and pally on nef with me (pally heals) on bear and shammy on pally. Our bear does not take a lot of damge on Ony, breaths are about the thing that hit hard. For some reason the pally tank seems to do better on nef.

  8. #8
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    We were going with me on Nef in p3, but we've changed it up since our kiter stopped going tank spec to tank the p1 adds. I now tank Ony in p1 and kite adds in p3. Didn't even think she could of been in cat spec, I'll ask her or check her spec tonight. And I won't exaggerating the 90k hits, I was going by what the healers said. They would be alright in healing her and then boom she's at 15% life (which I think is during crackle and something else, not sure though). On me during crackle and popping a small cd I don't get below half usually if I time the cd right.

    Also, I don't think she has a stam trinket, only reason I do is I'm an alchemist. We can't never get the worm or vial to drop ever. Same with my damn mace on maloriak lol. And she does have the mirror of broken images, just don't know if she's using or when she's using it.

    And I will be sure to get a log tonight and post it so there's more information.

  9. #9
    You don't need a Stamina trinket for Nef.

    I tanked him with ~153k raid buffed and we were fine. Only time I died is when either I screwed up, or the healer just didn't heal me.

    When Nef lands, need to immediately do 3 things when moving him away from Ony:

    1) Get Demo Roar up ASAP
    2) Get IW up ASAP
    3) Pop Barkskin

    You should be able to move him out of Ony's range before the first breath. Don't turn around and run away, just back away. Running away means you can't dodge and end up taking more damage.

    The 90k hits you are talking about can come from two things:

    1) Breath immediately followed by a melee attack.
    2) Electrocute.

    #1 shouldn't be a problem because the breath has a cast time, and is channeled. The tank should be healing during it.
    #2 shouldn't be a problem because the Electrocutes should be CD'ed.

  10. #10
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    Ok, here's the log from tonight. Best attempt was 35% p3.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/nr31ejt87dpdz2t7/

  11. #11
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    average melee damage taken 25K so I assume I was either right about the spec or right about the 90K being grossly exaggerated



  12. #12
    Honestly, the damage taken on your Feral is pretty much fine for the most part. What I would like to know, is how the hell your Paladin tank is taking so much damage.

    Our 10m Nef kill last week: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-f1...=10568&e=11069

    The big difference being I tank skeletons and the Paladin tanks Nef. As you can see your Feral is pretty much on course to take the same amount of damage as our Paladin, probably slightly less. Your paladin however, is going to take a helluva lot more damage than I am.

    That being said, your Feral could change a few things:

    1) Has 4 yellow gems. Only needs 2.
    2) Symbiotic Worm is kinda "meh". I'd rather have Fluid Death.
    3) Missing 1 reforge, and has another item reforged to Mastery instead of Dodge.

    Your overall raid DPS is also REALLY low. At that rate you're not going to be able to kill Nef before the soft enrage, let alone have problems worrying about your tank.

  13. #13
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    Wait, you're THREE tanking 10 man?

  14. #14
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    Yes we are. We couldn't get a dps to successfully kite the adds.

    And what do you mean I'm taking hella damage o.o. All the healers are saying the opposite and saying the feral is taking more damage. And they also said she wasn't taking nearly as much as last night, but still more than me.

    And what could I do differently to take lesser damage? I'm using mastery/prismatic elixirs, mastery food, I'm at 97% avoidance whenever procs, around 90-94% normally.

    EDIT: If that warrior tanking the adds was in his fury spec he'd be the one topping the meters and not the warlock, the warrior does around 20k+ substained.

    EDIT2: Come to look at it all our raid is taking like triple the damage ya'll are taking in that log you posted o.o.

  15. #15
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    We generally CC as many as we can (2-3) and have an enh shammy do the leg work with a rockbiter weapon and have him switch weapons once the adds fall over. Though with a couple CCed we've had Frost DKs just tank them with Glyph of dark succour, and our Holy pally tank them with RF up, if you can get 3 CCed an Resto shammie can just about survive with a little luck, though they'll need some Mana pumped back in them to make phase 2.

    Get your hunter to stop using the Fox, you're bringing 3 tanks, you souldn't have a problem putting the dehaste buff up, both you and the druid do it passively. Get him to provide a buff you don't have. Like the +4% physical damage of a ravager

    The reason i suspect the you are tanking more damage than Katarn's druid is becuase Paladins have a much more dificult time putting up their melee dehaste and physical damage debuffs, JotJ is alot harder to keep up on 5 targets than Infected wounds

  16. #16
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    And that hunter was there just for tonight, he's usually not there. Our core team consists of the following:

    Paladin tank (me)
    Druid tank
    Holy pally
    Resto shammy
    Disc Priest / Resto Druid
    Aff Lock
    Ele shammy
    Fury/Prot warrior
    Ass Rogue
    and whatever we can get to fill in

  17. #17
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    the Disc priest/resto Druid can Shackle/Root respectively. I don't know if the adds can be hexed but with an ele shaman thats definetly worth a pop, they'll be immune to the lock's fears. but still if you can get a second CC in your Fury warrior shouldn't have too much of a problem kiting the other 3 adds in def stance, if he puts demoshout up (he doesn't in you log which is bad) and makes good work of heroic leap, intercept, the ability that resets intercept, and intervene.

    Really its nice that you get past phase 1, but 3 tanking it to get past phase 1 is just extending the wipe. if i'm reading it right, you struggling to push nef much past 50% in phase 3. His adds are just gonna end up being alive for too long and due to thier stacking damage buff are eventually gonna kill you.

    I'm not sure of your bear's CD usage, I'm seeing not alot of Image use, but i do see a grounded plasma shield. That's quite a gamble, It's hard to say if its actually worse than not popping a CD. if that thing fails it's a wipe. i'd really try to get her to use Image for electrocutes and Barkskin for breaths.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    Wait, you're THREE tanking 10 man?
    The common strategy is to have either a Plate DPS or Feral group the adds up in P1. This is nothing new.

    Barkskin for breaths.
    Why on earth would you BS a breath? You need to be cycling everything in P3 to handle electrocutes. If your healers can't handle healing through a breath, there's a bigger problem.

    JotJ is alot harder to keep up on 5 targets than Infected wounds
    I specifically do not put up IW on the skeletons. Unless I want them to get caught by fire. I suspect I'm just better at movement than he is.

    But yeah, your Feral tank isn't the problem. Your overall raid DPS being way low is the problem.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katarn View Post
    The common strategy is to have either a Plate DPS or Feral group the adds up in P1. This is nothing new.
    .....
    But yeah, your Feral tank isn't the problem. Your overall raid DPS being way low is the problem.
    Having a Plate DPS tank the the adds in phase 1 isn't three tanking it. Bringing a protection warrior in place of a DPS to do it is. The reason their raid DPS is way low is becuase its 3 healers, 3 tanks and 4 DPS. Prot Warriors are not able to pull big numbers without having something eat their face.

    I forgot IW had a snare effect.

    The reason i suggest using a minor/short CD cooldown for breaths is that with the TB trinket, which the druid is using and one external CD you have enough CDs to cover 5 electrocutes in P3 and still have a CD to spare for the breaths.

  20. #20
    Having a Plate DPS tank the the adds in phase 1 isn't three tanking it. Bringing a protection warrior in place of a DPS to do it is. The reason their raid DPS is way low is becuase its 3 healers, 3 tanks and 4 DPS. Prot Warriors are not able to pull big numbers without having something eat their face.
    Oh jeez, I didn't even notice it was a prot warrior. Nevermind then.

    The reason i suggest using a minor/short CD cooldown for breaths is that with the TB trinket, which the druid is using and one external CD you have enough CDs to cover 5 electrocutes in P3 and still have a CD to spare for the breaths.
    Your raid DPS is going to need to be really high to get him to 50% before P3. I doubt they're going to accomplish that. Typically it will be 2 in P1, 1 in P2, and 6 in P3.

    And you still shouldn't need to CD any breaths, at all.

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