back from the dead

[TheJuice]

So i have been away from playing WoW for a while now, and i am thinking of starting up again, here is some background on my case;

I started playing as a casual player on March 2005 (weird that i remember?) my first and main was a holy priest which i mostly focused on pvp, due to the fact that i found vanilla pvp so rewarding (the good old days). but i also did some part-time raiding. come TBC i decided to pick up a paladin and get more serious into raiding, coming from playing a healer i always admired good tanks and decided that is what i wanted to do. sure enough, any raiding guild worth looking into already had their tank spots taken so i was talked into "raiding as a holy paladin to start off with, and gearing up as a tank on the side" of course this is what i did...but I started to realize that the more i advanced as a healadin the farther i got from ever making it as a tank. I went through a handfull of gearing guilds, but always behind the curtain, until I got accepted into the 2nd best raiding guild on my server. By this point i came to accept that my dream of being MT was not going to happen, so i was just honored to become the MT healer. i had a decent tank set by then, enough to OT t5 progression, but of course i never got to use it. After killing Ilidan, i decided i had enough face mashing, and decided to quit raiding and level up a prot warrior. i never got to MT end game content, but i had 10 times more fun tanking heroics and the ocassional pug raid on my warrior, than i ever did with my paladin. Soon after i had to quit WoW altogether due to RL (military deployments) so i didn't get the play WOTLK.

So for the last 2 weeks i have been trying to read up as much as i can on how much warrior tanking, and the game for that matter, has changed. I am determined to reactivate my 70 prot warrior and continue on from there, so i have some questions:

-has the addition of 10man raids opened up spots for more tanks, or the addition of DKs made things worse?

-If there are tank shortages, am i looking at ending up with the nosebleed guilds, seeing as i will be coming in several months into Cata, or is game content still fresh?

-has the game mechanic changes made it so any joe can tank now, or is MT still as prestigious as before?

-and of course, is tanking still as fun as i remember?

-if nothing else, can i still have fun gearing up with heroics, and reputations, or is it all about being in a good raiding guild now?



-Old school-

[Tengenstein]

1. Not really, tank spots are usually filled quickly in raiding guilds
2. Content is getting a little stale at this point, but being that we're likely to get tier 12 within the next 6 weeks it's not really a concern
3. the MT role doesn't really exist anymore, you're a tank or not a tank. Anyone who can play competently can tank. there is still a large difference between a competent tank and a better than competent tank. Tanks shouldn't be Divas.
4. Doubtful, nostalgia is a poweful hallucigen, but i wouldn't give it up
5. Depends on the player, I've had alot of fun in 5 mans, with my guild but that becuase of the peeps i'm doing it with not the content i'm doing. Rep grinding is hardly evewr fun for me.

[klausi]

has the addition of 10man raids opened up spots for more tanks, or the addition of DKs made things worse?

Way more spots, 10 man requires 2 tanks while 25 man only requires 3 tanks at best. The addition of DKs is no problem, it's the same situation as for every other class capable of tanking: not many players choose the way of getting beaten to death and responsibility to lead the group.

If there are tank shortages, am i looking at ending up with the nosebleed guilds, seeing as i will be coming in several months into Cata, or is game content still fresh?

Content is old, we're waiting for the next tier to come by. But this is the best time for a fresh tank to join: all encounters are balanced around a reasonable group of dedicated players, you can grab some gear easily and start on par with the rest of your server with the coming major patch.

has the game mechanic changes made it so any joe can tank now, or is MT still as prestigious as before?

Any Joe can tank it, but it's not like hitting sunder armor for 3 minutes and going afk until Chromaggus or Nefarian is dead afterwards. And your raiders will acknowledge your superior movement/threatbuild capabilities compared to subpar playing "Joe's".

and of course, is tanking still as fun as i remember?

I raided every instance of WoW and this has been the most difficult, best balanced and rewarding Tier for me. Raiding with 9 people i like feels so much better then raiding with 15ish and have to bring 9 dorks to fill the spots. All tanks now have a priority system with proccs to improve their threat/damage done and at least i've a lot of fun playing them.

if nothing else, can i still have fun gearing up with heroics, and reputations, or is it all about being in a good raiding guild now?

I geared my second tanking toon in a matter of hours in full heroic instance gear including almost all relevant reputation stuff. Cata is all about raiding and to be honest: everything else is worse then ever.

[Abir]

I geared my second tanking toon in a matter of hours in full heroic instance gear including almost all relevant reputation stuff. Cata is all about raiding and to be honest: everything else is worse then ever.

Not to derail the thread, but I just dinged yesterday, and I'd love to know how you did that. I don't have the gear from questing to tank, and tanks go ape if I dare roll on tank drops.

[Rystrave]

Doing the non-heroic dungeons is key. Get those upgrades from your ICC gear, then mosey on over to heroics. I forget what iLvl you have to have before you do heroics, but I know it's not very high. If you've got some gold, it wouldn't even hurt buying some crafted pieces. They're relatively cheap (on my server anyway).

[Texan81]

329 is ilevel you need for heroic

Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk

[Loganisis]

Since everyone is adding their 2¢, here's mine...

-has the addition of 10man raids opened up spots for more tanks, or the addition of DKs made things worse?

DKs haven't made it worse. Good tanks will still get picked up quickly, but you might have to move up from mid to top tier guilds. As Teng alluded to, top guilds don't like to recruit tanks they don't know.

-If there are tank shortages, am i looking at ending up with the nosebleed guilds, seeing as i will be coming in several months into Cata, or is game content still fresh?

As Klausi said, we're ~1 month from 4.2 and the next raid tier. There's been a lot of turn over and a lot f experienced players have left. There are going to be holes in some guilds. But this tier of raiding has been open since December (6 months atm). But it does mean you can gear up fast because everyone in your raid has everything already ;-)

-has the game mechanic changes made it so any joe can tank now, or is MT still as prestigious as before?

An average player can tank most encounters, at least on normal. A raid will quickly note the difference between average and good however, as Klausi said. Cata is very unforgiving if you don't respect the mechanics. This is where a good tank will be clearly visible, they won't die to mechanics, which will prevent many, many wipes.

I was doing Al'Akir for the first time last night (8 of us hadn't done him, 2 had) and while tanking I wiped the raid a half dozen times because I was in the wrong spot, moved to the wrong place, or got myself trapped by the mechanics and thrown off the edge by squall lines. It was very frustrating. One mistake on a squall line by the tank and you wipe the attempt. There seems to be a lot more of this type of situation, where missing key mechanics as the tank can wipe the raid.

So that's a long winded way of saying there isn't much like Heigan's Safety Dance where poor tanks break like wreckage on a rocky shore, but a good tank is obvious, if only once you've seen an average tank on an encounter.

-and of course, is tanking still as fun as i remember?

I enjoy cata tanking far more than Wrath, but it sounds like you're TBC era, so that doesn't help much ;-). I still prefer to deeps however (and always will I suspect XD)

-if nothing else, can i still have fun gearing up with heroics, and reputations, or is it all about being in a good raiding guild now?

You can have fun* gearing up.

*Though running heroics with players you know/trust will help make it more enjoyable. the random dungeon finder pug love connection can be frustrating at times...

If you're into lore, several of the zones seemed to have strong storylines (though I don't know how they fit into the overall WoW lore, I'm not a lore guy). I did like how most zones flowed really well, sometimes with 2 concurrent quest chains at the same time. There's a good flow to the Cata zones.

But once you're geared and you've run the heroics a few times and you outgear them (and due to the fact that gear has positive exponential rating increases between tiers, not linear, this happens more quickly) then it becomes all about the raiding or PvP (if you're into that :-/ ).

Unless you're a completionist or alt-addict or something like that... then you have 9 more to go

[Theotherone]

While you could say MT is prestegious, IMHO this expansion is about the healers. I tank, heal and dps and unlike the WoLK days when mana was plentiful, these days healers have to know their class and it's tools. No more spam your biggest heal and all is good.

In fact, it's probably more difficult, on my server at least, to find good healers than good tanks. My case isn't that unusual, I went into my current guild as a healer on loan (and stayed) and while I'll tank or dps the occasional alt run, as my healing partner told me in vent: "you're doomed with us, you made the mistake of being a good healer."

[Insahnity]

Gearing is not that difficult. Below is a quick, and likely incomplete, list of items you can get very soon after hitting 85, most of it is BoEs readily available on the AH. Rep based items assumed you quested your way to 85, doing faction rewarding quests only.

Shoulders - 359 BoE Drop
Cloak - 353 BoE Drop, 359 Rep
Chest - 359 Craftable
Bracers - 353 BoE drop, 359 Rep
Belt - 359 BoE Craftable
Boots - 359 rep, VP BoE
Ring - 346 Craftable
Trinket - 359 Craftable if Alchemist, 346 from JC or Eng
Sword - 353 BoE mace and 359 BoE Sword Drops
Shield - 359 BoE Craftable AND 359 World Drop BoE
Ranged - 359 BoE Drop
(relic) - 346 Craftable (generally DPS, but can OK for tanking)
(2h) 346 Craftable BoE

Gloves - 359 BH T11 Drop
Pants - 359 BH T11 Drop

With this much, it is impossible for you not to hit ilvl 329, which is heroic level gear (and if you get all of it, you are likely ilvl 346, which means you are at Zul'Heroic eligible). Between heroics and Troll Heroics, you should get everything else.

I haven't even counted the Justice Points options, in case you don't sink that much cash on gear, and 980 VP from heroic cap + 70 VP gets you very close to 1250 VP for a 359 ring (or whatever else VP you want, depending on how much VP)

Beyond that, it's your choice of grinding Zul'Heroics for drops, Baradin Hold Dailies, BH raid when your faction has TB plus a little luck, and you are there.

[Loganisis]

IMHO this expansion is about the healers.

I'd agree with that. A tank can wipe the raid in some fights by screwing up, but without comptent healers, there are some fights you just won't be able to do until you outgear the content.

[Crittable]

You can have fun* gearing up.

*Though running heroics with players you know/trust will help make it more enjoyable. the random dungeon finder pug love connection can be frustrating at times...

Don't forget the Call to Arms that is always up for tanks... it CAN make the pugging a little more tolerable if you are truly a bag junkie like some people I know.

[Rystrave]

Don't forget the Call to Arms that is always up for tanks... it CAN make the pugging a little more tolerable if you are truly a bag junkie like some people I know.

I made 5k off pets I got in my goodie bags yesterday. I love Call to Arms <3

[Reev]

Yeah, I'd definitely say that gearing an alt up is the fun part, for sure. Alts aren't nearly so much fun once they're geared, since you won't be taking them to progression fights anyway, and the fun is getting yourself kitted out over time anyway.

[klausi]

Not to derail the thread, but I just dinged yesterday, and I'd love to know how you did that. I don't have the gear from questing to tank, and tanks go ape if I dare roll on tank drops.

Well of course you could buy gazillions of overpriced 359 BoE world drops on the the auction house. I crafted the belt and the shield (both BiS on normal mode) while leveled my professions in time (Alchemy) and just went for the 346 instances (ZA/ZG wasn't out yet) straight. Nowaday you can also buy the boe Zul bracers rather cheap and the valor point boots as well.

And i just tanked those normal heroics without that 15%-LFD buff, why wouldn't you? If you die.. well that happens. No reason they will vote you if you manage to queue for them without cheating gear.

[Reev]

Well of course you could buy gazillions of overpriced 359 BoE world drops on the the auction house. I crafted the belt and the shield (both BiS on normal mode) while leveled my professions in time (Alchemy) and just went for the 346 instances (ZA/ZG wasn't out yet) straight. Nowaday you can also buy the boe Zul bracers rather cheap and the valor point boots as well.

And i just tanked those normal heroics without that 15%-LFD buff, why wouldn't you? If you die.. well that happens. No reason they will vote you if you manage to queue for them without cheating gear.

Also, if you don't feel you have the gear to tank 5 trash mobs in a heroic, don't. CC 2 of them and tank 3. A fury warrior could probably tank 3 in dps gear, so you'll be fine.

[Theotherone]

Here's a real life example http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...karoe/advanced

This is about a weeks (give or take) worth of TB grinding for the trinket and a weekend focus on heorics including za/zg.

What I had was the crafted chest, belt and shield. I had picked up the 353 bracers (I have the Ramkahen ones now), mace and cloak on alt runs in za/zg. I got the Terazzane ring and had my jc make the Mobius band and the neck. That got me to about 347ish since trinkets were an issue. I made the Earthquake card (meh trinket, but I like it) and ground TB for the Mirror. Couple good drops in ZA/ZG and I'm at 354. I did pick up the tank sword in ZG this morning and I'm 80 VP away from tier gloves.

A weeks investment and your as well, if not better geared, than most tanks on the server and have yet to set foot in BoT or BWD on this toon.

[TheJuice]

thank you for the repllies, couple more questions came up while reading through:

-is the 70-80 quests useless, and so should i level through dungeons until 80 and then start questing for rep?

-is prot warrior good for solo questing now? i have read how there is several healing abilities for warriors now (finaly!) i would really hope to not have to respec to dps for questing, since i don't have the gear for it.

-can't link my character since he's been inactive for too long, but basically in tbc i could steamroll through heroics. will i be needing to replace all my gear right away? (classic wow to tbc comes to mind) or should i be able to bypass most wotlk gear and start gearing up with cata gear?

thank you for the advice, anything helps.

[Tengenstein]

Prot is pretty good for leveling, but you really have to ensure you've got enough mobs beating on you, our single target damage is (unsurpirsingly for a tank) quite low, so taking one mob at a time is quite safe it's also rather slow way to get xp, we have tremendous AoE damage these days so make sure you're killing as many mobs at once as you can survive.

Your TBC gear, augmented with some wrath gems should see you into wrath a bit, though some of the later quest rewards would surpsass them, you won't be able to skip straight from TBC to to cata gear. the beginning zones of cata can be quite brutal with level 80 blues.

[Theotherone]

I leveled as Prot and it was a breeze. Victory Rush heals very nicely as you aggro the zone. I combined quests and dungeons for the run from 70-80. Some of that was because I really liked some of the quest lines; Hodir (starts with They Took Our Men); then the Bran quests in Frostholm and the epic quest line in Dragonblight that leads to battle at the Wrathgate (you start the chain with the quests in the mine near Naxx, I believe).

I'll probably get this wrong, but they either lowered xp requirments by 15% or buffed xp gain by 15% to get you through faster. Anyway a combo of quests and dungeons gets you through fast. Part of the reason for questing is the phasing; you may want to quest to open certain areas like Hodir - the enchants from them can be useful going into Cat.

[klausi]

And i just tanked those normal heroics without that 15%-LFD buff, why wouldn't you? If you die.. well that happens. No reason they will vote you if you manage to queue for them without cheating gear.

Just did this again today (extended holydays and rainy weather..):

Prologue
- somehow managed surviving that annoying wrath content
- 80-81 with 3 random dungeons (all boa boni still count until 81, afer that only helmet + cloak) and zero rested bonus
- visited all four avaible instances ~ 2x
- went to deepholme and did those 80ish quests to unlock Therazane
- pushed my leatherworking profession to 485 while grinding basilisks in Deepholme
- dinged 84, went to all new instances once and sat at 84.5 and ilvl 329 from questgear, a few instance drops and crafted LW stuff
- did the unlock quest for twilight highland and continued to grind skinnable mobs there until LW 500ish
*ding 85*
- jumped into the first two random instances with a geared healer (guildmate) because i was afraid i couldn't stand it solo, but with 15% buff i was sitting at 150k with an old flask (had a stack laying around from leveling alchemy) and no stamina buff
- did all other heroics (~9) on my own, died rarely with little to no cc .. i actually tried hibernating and rooting some mobs but some overeager hunter/dk always free'd them to early.
- all groups except one (complete failure, that group couldn't manage to deal combined 15k ish dps on an aoe fight) went very smoothly, regular heroics just have been nerfed very much in the past
- total drops: two (luckily a weapon and a relic, two pricy pieces if you have to buy/craft the boe's)
- won enough orbs to craft LW cloak, chest and belt, had some VP left on an alt to buy the boots and spent 200g on ZA random drop gloves
- bought everything else via JP
* ilvl 346*
- ready for zandalar heroics (after 9 heroics and about 7 hours of playing at lvl 85)
- it was actually the first time i ever went to both instances in a total random group via LFD, was to afraid (elitist? i don't know) doing that on my main/other tanking toons before
- cleared both instances altogether 5 times, got about one loot every second run and now i can't earn more VP that week so i'll go back again next one
- of course you need some communication and CC for zandalar randoms, i died a couple of times due to miscommunication or the absence of knowledge from the healers. But if you got a smooth temper and some patience you will clear those instances.
- zero interesting Satchel loot, *sadface*
- finished this day with the looking for many achievement and ilvl 350 after ~ 12h of playing at 85, 1 hour for each zandalar heroic

Some clarifications:
- i always had my gear enchanted, +130 agi on any weapon and 36 stamina kits during the cata gearing process and the best ones on the 346+ gear. Having leatherworking was of great help here while swapping panties like undies (+145 sta & 55 agi enchant is basically free as is bracer enchant with 105 stamina and later on 130 agi)
- leveling a crafting profession takes a ton of time and gold, if i would just have sold all leather i could have easily bought all crafted pieces and maybe some other (eg: Tsanga's helmet and Morie's chest) as well.
- gold shouldn't be a problem in general, every random instance nets you a ton of money. 80 gold from login to LFD + another 80 gold from satchel + random loot from the instances (grey stuff, green stuff and disenchanting mats in general are lucrative as always, heavinly shards sell for 100g a piece on my realm and i won ~ dozen) easily adds up to 300+ gold every run including your repair bill.

Part of the reason for questing is the phasing; you may want to quest to open certain areas like Hodir - the enchants from them can be useful going into Cat.

I wouldn't bother with that, Savage Armor Kit provides +36 stamina for ~ 20ish gold while Greater Inscription of the Pinnacle nets +20 dodge +22 stamina.

On leveling a warrior: both dps specc aren't that much fun to play without an actual weapon, but leveling with prot warr outside of dungeons almost felt like leveling a classic holy paladin.. cozy & leisurely. If you got BoA stuff (especially weapons) i'd just go arms until lvl 80 while questing.
On leveling a kitty: remember those PvP frost mage videos with a guy using a steering wheel and having Ice Lance bound to everything? Same for kitty, just hitting mangle all day (and night) long.. *zzz*