Legendary: Episode 30 - Rage Quit

[sifuedition]

It's nice that some people say they want to enjoy the raids at their own pace. I can empathize with that to a degree. However, it's a selfish statement for several reasons.

1. Others want to see the content at the skill they have. I am in a casual guild with a progression minded subset of players. We try to run two raids but don't have enough skilled players to fill the better group every week. Low pop server without a lot of options. We have many players who strive for average and there is no hope of them getting much better. So to play with friends, I don't get to see all the content? Then why should I stay?

2. Not everyone started at the same time as you. Blizz does a great job of getting new players at every new expansion, patch and tier. Me personally, I started mid wrath. Following your logic, I should not have seen ICC until about now or even later. Or had to pass up half of ulduar, all of toc and icc because I started later. If there is no way to advance faster as tiers pile up, new players are perpetually behind or never get to see much of what they are paying for. Additionally, why would I ever attempt to talk a non-wow friend into starting the game if they will never get to play with me?

[Rowdy]

People praising TBC should remember that it went by a nerf bat system instead of "Hard Modes."

I think people do realize that. There is nothing wrong with nerfing old content when new content is available - preferrably in a smart way (i.e. not flat numbers of abilities, no trivializing, just make things easier to handle). But now we have easier raids to begin with and we let people overgear the content more and more and raids get nerfed to teh ground.

And also the good part about it was that there were no Hardmodes :P

@ sifuedition
I really struggle with the idea that anyones fun playing the game comes from what others do. What does it matter? What matters is what you do. And if T11 is fun (and it is), why would anyone not have fun doing it if he/she starts just later?

[Meshuggah]

It's nice that some people say they want to enjoy the raids at their own pace. I can empathize with that to a degree. However, it's a selfish statement for several reasons.

1. Others want to see the content at the skill they have. I am in a casual guild with a progression minded subset of players. We try to run two raids but don't have enough skilled players to fill the better group every week. Low pop server without a lot of options. We have many players who strive for average and there is no hope of them getting much better. So to play with friends, I don't get to see all the content? Then why should I stay?

Then why should you stay? That is a question only you can answer. Based on what you say here, if your friends will never go beyond casual, you may not see end game content. I had to make a similar choice, and it's worked out fine.

I have some RL friends that are horrible at the game. We were in a guild and we were just having fun for a long time. I was also very very casualy for a year or two. I had never even stepped into a raid. Once i did though, I got the bug. My friends did not. I took my main to a raiding guild that pushed me to being a good player. I left an alt with my friends and all was good. I get to progress and I get to enjoy stuff with my friends. Just saying, you can work way's around it.

If your friends abandon you because you want to progress in a video game where the ultimate goal is to defeat bosses, are they really friends? Just sayin....

[Darksend]

Darksend I sympathize with you, I feel that TBC was a golden age but as someone who wasn't in a guild that cleared BT it's extremely frustrating running a TK/SSC guild while there are guilds doing BT/Hyjal/SWP. I have no problem trying to get to that level as was stated in the episode it's actually gives you a purpose for raiding aside from loot. But its frustrating when your healers or whatever caster your server is in demand of leaves for a Tier 6+ guild.

The most fun I ever had in this game was 2 months before 2.0 and the time between 2.0 and the expansion starting.

WHY?!

Because my naxx clearing guild had just disbanded so I took my warrior on my old server with 6-7 friends (from my rank 13 grind days) I still had there are we started a "project guild" with a 20 man guild that had only every cleared ZG and AQ20, and the first few bosses in MC. So I came in as an outsider and became the new raid leader for a bunch of strangers in mostly rank 13-14 pvp gear and mostly aq20/zg gear and no one with any 40 man raid experience besides myself. In 2 weeks, we had rag and broodlord dead. Another 2 weeks we were working on Huhu and the early naxx bosses. By the time the level cap was raised, we were 4 bosses into naxx with huhu in aq40 and would have killed nef if we had 1 more week.

I miss those days and that guild more than anything in this game, and you cannot do anything like that anymore.

[Kahmal]

The most fun I ever had in this game was 2 months before 2.0 and the time between 2.0 and the expansion starting.

WHY?!

Because my naxx clearing guild had just disbanded so I took my warrior on my old server with 6-7 friends (from my rank 13 grind days) I still had there are we started a "project guild" with a 20 man guild that had only every cleared ZG and AQ20, and the first few bosses in MC. So I came in as an outsider and became the new raid leader for a bunch of strangers in mostly rank 13-14 pvp gear and mostly aq20/zg gear and no one with any 40 man raid experience besides myself. In 2 weeks, we had rag and broodlord dead. Another 2 weeks we were working on Huhu and the early naxx bosses. By the time the level cap was raised, we were 4 bosses into naxx with huhu in aq40 and would have killed nef if we had 1 more week.

I miss those days and that guild more than anything in this game, and you cannot do anything like that anymore.

Yea those were the days. In Vanilla I never set a foot in BWL but I knew it was their, I had a goal to reach. Unfortunately Blizzard could not ignore the casual QQ and I personally think they did have a point. (same money, same content)

I agree the flat percentage nerfs are a bit too extreme for the Tier 11 content, but I think a real concern Blizzard has to address is the longevity of the expansion. They say they lost subscribers due to them plowing through content too quickly. Now the the fact that 80-85 took about a day to complete already shortened the expansion life cycle. Vanilla/Burning Crusade had the raid progression model that gave the average raider a whole lot of content to look forward to doing whether or not he/she got to it or not. WotLK allowed you to clear a raid in it's 10 and 25 man versions (as tedious as raiding the same dungeon twice was it was still something to do). Cata currently has neither meaning content is just going to get stale again.

[Mhoram]

Nothing I said was meant to be in a "I ALWAYS WANT MY GEAR TO BE BETTER" way. It was simply said from the perspective of someone who knows how hard it is for top end guilds to recruit in end of expansion content because of the welfare nature of gear.

I agree normal modes of previous tiers should be nerfed and I agree that at some point the gear from 5 mans should be better then the gear from 5 mans when the expansion first starts, what I simply disagree with is how soon

Well, if it's end-of-expansion, why do you even care? Everybody usually starts quitting until the expansion hits anyway, so just do what you feel like doing and wait until the big shiny box shows up in the store to start pushing again. What you're complaining about is like getting upset when you're waiting for the waiter to bring you your check in a restaurant when you're done eating dessert. Just sit, have some pleasant conversation, and enjoy the atmosphere.

[Meshuggah]

Well, if it's end-of-expansion, why do you even care? Everybody usually starts quitting until the expansion hits anyway, so just do what you feel like doing and wait until the big shiny box shows up in the store to start pushing again. What you're complaining about is like getting upset when you're waiting for the waiter to bring you your check in a restaurant when you're done eating dessert. Just sit, have some pleasant conversation, and enjoy the atmosphere.

Darksend was saying that there is a lot going into recruiting for top guilds. These are guilds wanting world firsts. What mucks up the process is decent players that can easily get their Tier gear at the end of an expansion because the bosses have been nerfed for anyone to complete.

To answer the question of why would he care is simple: Top guilds that get world and server firsts don't just stop recruiting and wait to see what happens when the next xpac comes out. They want to come out swinging and get those world firsts. They have goals and want to achieve them. If you care about being the best, you want the best to come to your guild. You get the best through recruiting and trying out. Same as a professional sports team. Just less running, and more nerd rage.

[Kahmal]

Darksend was saying that there is a lot going into recruiting for top guilds. These are guilds wanting world firsts. What mucks up the process is decent players that can easily get their Tier gear at the end of an expansion because the bosses have been nerfed for anyone to complete.

To answer the question of why would he care is simple: Top guilds that get world and server firsts don't just stop recruiting and wait to see what happens when the next xpac comes out. They want to come out swinging and get those world firsts. They have goals and want to achieve them. If you care about being the best, you want the best to come to your guild. You get the best through recruiting and trying out. Same as a professional sports team. Just less running, and more nerd rage.

Ha....this is something I've experianced plenty during WotLK. I actually joined a hardcore raiding guild shooting for server first on our realm. Taking down a few bosses when the 5% had just came out and some before it did. I remember the difficulty trying to push down Lady Deathwhisper on Heroic even with 5% and we took her down when it hit 10%, the extra 5% made Lord Saurfang quite laughable but Professor and Sindragosa were still a challenge. We got fully cleared Plaguewing and got Sindragosa to 2% at 10% buff (we put melee on full time DPS 3rd phase like morons.)

Basically by the time the 20% buff came out every encounter save Heroic LK became a joke, the problem was we were still going through raiders leaving and having to recruit new ones, new ones spoiled by the how easy the encounters had become since they did not toil with us during the 5% phase. It became quite depressing when we started chain wiping on Heroic Lady Deathwhisper at 30% buff.....