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Thread: The Weekly Marmot - The Dungeon Journal Fiasco

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    except, that's kinda the point of these things. spread news, talk about it with his trusted opinion, answer peoples questions/concerns. Just think of it this way.
    Hmm... Maybe I'm giving Destruyn too much credit, but I'm thinking that's what he meant - he was poking at the poster that what he thought was bad about it was the point of it... That it's not brand-spanking new, but condensing what's available in a useful way
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  2. #22
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    yeah i wasn't particularly attacking destruyen, but rather the quote he mentioned.

    welcome to any news site, you get reiterations of the facts. you want more indepth info about stuff? ask in the forums.

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  3. #23
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    I fail to understand why people are so up about Lore's topic here.

    He states one thing about the fact he's Horde and the entire Alliance army goes up in arms. He was making a snide remark about it because he's Horde. He doesn't sway from giving World of Warcraft news at all, he just doesn't go and specifically know Alliance based skills. That's not the end of the world here, it's a choice preference and something people need to come to grips with: He raids as a Horde member and I'm sure he has Alliance friends (He's known me as an Alliance player and the same for Ciderhelm btw.)

    Honestly folks, the whole "LORE IS ANTI ALLIANCE AND HIS VIDEOS SUX" stuff is silly. If you don't agree with his opinion, fine, but the remark someone did in this thread about how he didn't give any information other than stuff that can be done on sites needs to realize this: He's giving his opinion on the subject and that's what webcasts are for. The Weekly Marmot is a discussion of events happening in World of Warcraft and how he interprets it as a hardcore raider on World of Warcraft. Expecting him to do groundbreaking discoveries would require him to infiltrate Blizzard and he's no Jack Bauer. (His hair would immediately give his cover away.)

    Let's all take a deep breath and not start some sort of 'resistance' movement because you didn't like a remark or something Lore said. Remember what the WM and PST are: web shows that post opinions by the person. You are in no way obliged to watch these; they're here because Lore is an outstanding member of the community and many people have come to enjoy and respect his opinion. Not everyone will but many thank him for what he does.

    Finally, the Tankspot videos come when they come. We work vigilantly on getting videos up as fast as possible however nothing stops forum users from sitting down and discussing strategies about the fights. Remember how Tankspot was built: People who were passionate about the tanking perspective part of the game and building a community that discussed this. Nothing stops any of you from sitting down and talking about strats involving boss fights. The videos are a courtesy of Tankspot and as such, should be thanked for, not angered when the information isn't there.

    Let's aaaaaaaaaaall take a deep breath.

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  4. #24
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    This is an excellent illustration of the very point he made...small comment blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION.

    Well played internet.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KASKADE View Post
    I'm over watching these videos. Tankspot, you probably don't care but that's one less subscriber; hope I start a trend.

    A. I'm tired of all the random anti-Alliance comments.

    B. Lore rarely/never says anything useful; he simply reiterates information anybody could get from MMO-champion and the official forums. His commentary is largely pointing out the obvious.

    C. By the way, whatever happened to strategy guides? This is the first time playing WOW where I have killed bosses on heroic mode before the Tankspot video was up....maybe I'm simply in a better guild now but really..... there should be a video for every heroic boss save maybe Sinestra.

    Conclusion: no point in watching a dorky kid ramble about obvious WOW current events; especially if I have to hear his bad opinions. Go ahead and ban me if you want, but you know I'm right.
    The Reason there are fewer video's now is there used to be 4 people making them for WOW and now there are 2 of them working on Rift instead.
    Ciderhelm and Aliena still posts at least 1 new video a month for rift.

    You know what would happen if Lore had Jibed The Horde instead? NOTHING!
    I play both sides and make jibes at both sides myself and I have never seen a Horde player get bent out of shape about it. But Alliance ones have gone into tirades and even reported me for it! lol
    Last edited by Uranos7; 05-25-2011 at 12:41 PM.
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by KASKADE View Post
    Conclusion: no point in watching a dorky kid ramble about obvious WOW current events; especially if I have to hear his bad opinions. Go ahead and ban me if you want, but you know I'm right.
    Not to sound like I am picking hairs here but last I checked Lore was married and either 28 or 29 so I'd hardly call him a kid. And honestly, it was a joke about Alliance being the bad faction, we all know diplomacy is the best racial of all time.

  7. #27
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    I think I should elaborate based on the controversy that ensued right after my post.

    I have been watching videos on this site for a decently long time.... since Wrath (Ulduar era) days. I grew to love Tankspot for the boss strategy guides; and even when there weren't any Lore and Aliena would grace us with some WOW "shop talk" for lack of a better term. I have watched every video posted since that time, so I can say with some kind of accuracy that Lore has made dismissive and rude comments about the Alliance about half a dozen times minimum (to the point that now it's just annoying every time he brings it up).

    The first time I was like "...that was unnecessary......whatever".
    Second time "Alright, I guess he really hates the Alliance......probably going to p*ss off some of his viewers...." still wasn't angry just annoyed.
    Third time I was like "I can't believe I support this guy with views when he relishes in the opportunity to remind us of how stupid we are if we play Alliance." I don't care about his opinion and I'm tired of hearing it.

    I think to define exactly what it is:
    I absolutely hate the Horde. I would never roll a Horde character, and I think people that play the Horde are weird- I mean the races are monsters. Orc, Minotaur, UNDEAD? Maybe it's because I have an old school view of RPGs from playing Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy as a kid. RPGs are fantasy games about being a hero. There is nothing heroic about the Horde. Even their heroism buff literally isn't heroism...it's blood lust.

    That being said, even though I despise the Horde I would never under normal circumstances intentionally go out of my way to make somebody else feel uncomfortable or bad for playing Horde. That is their choice. Like, I wouldn't even say something on vent/mumble or type something in chat that would make somebody else feel uncomfortable because I have consideration for others.

    Lore doesn't share this point of view. That is because, in my opinion, he is immature. Like playing with a butterfly knife on a video..... that is immature.

    Hope that clarifies why I said what I said. I am willing to watch a show purely for the "Love of WOW" sharing and enjoyment even if I don't learn anything from the person like strategy or news. But not if they are so blatantly inconsiderate and like to (excuse the expression) sh*t on other people.

    That's basically it. Alot of the people that work here on this site are cool, I know.... for those of you that are actually cool, sorry for the trouble.
    ...But I thought it needed to be said once and for all.

    /endrant

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by KASKADE View Post
    Lore doesn't share this point of view. That is because, in my opinion, he is immature. Like playing with a butterfly knife on a video..... that is immature.
    He did that because his guild members wanted to know what that sound was that they kept hearing over vent so he demonstrated for them so that they would know. He explained this (and sighed) before demonstrating.

  9. #29
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    See that was much better. You do have to understand and even admit a lot of your original vitriol was not in support of your point but were merely attacks on Lore's character because his alliance comment pissed you off (I said as much in my original critique above). I understand, people get upset and say dumb things, but still it's just what happened. Here you clearly explain your position and explain it well without resorting to too much personal attack (really butterfly knives have nothing whatsoever to do with maturity) ... this is the right way to do it.

    That said you are still being awfully judgemental here. I am older than Lore, have raised children, have a very successful career ... and I personally can't stomach much of the alliance (exception being dwarves, <3 them) because they are simply too unrealistically cliche'd "lawful good". Needless to say all of my D&D characters were some brand of neutral because I believe morality is simply not a black and white issue. Even in the fantasy genre of literature (my obvious favorite), I largely prefer the more mature series that wind up being morality plays rather than refurbs of the bible with perfect good and perfect evil and a final battle. My point isn't that I'm right, my point is I consider the horde more "mature" than the alliance whereas you believe the opposite. How'd that happen?

    I believe you are rational enough to recognize my larger point ... perspective is mutable and therefore not worth getting all fired up over. I appreciate your perspective, heck to a certain extent I even respect it, though I don't agree with it in any way. That's fine, that's called being a mature adult. I can (to the extent possible given the data you provided) put myself in your shoes and sort of see your point of view and therefore appreciate it. I don't live in your shoes, I live in mine, but I can still see where you're coming from even though I don't agree with it. Perhaps you should try and see where people like Lore or myself are coming from as well and then you won't get so infuriated by his joking comments that really are not intended as condescension.
    RIP Stormrage Horde ('05 - '11). Turaylon Horde since 11/11 where there's actually people
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KASKADE View Post
    I'm over watching these videos. Tankspot, you probably don't care but that's one less subscriber; hope I start a trend.

    A. I'm tired of all the random anti-Alliance comments.

    B. Lore rarely/never says anything useful; he simply reiterates information anybody could get from MMO-champion and the official forums. His commentary is largely pointing out the obvious.

    C. By the way, whatever happened to strategy guides? This is the first time playing WOW where I have killed bosses on heroic mode before the Tankspot video was up....maybe I'm simply in a better guild now but really..... there should be a video for every heroic boss save maybe Sinestra.

    Conclusion: no point in watching a dorky kid ramble about obvious WOW current events; especially if I have to hear his bad opinions. Go ahead and ban me if you want, but you know I'm right.
    Also, as a new rule of mine, if you ask for a ban by martyring yourself. you earn yourself a ban because of the awkward situation martyrdom puts moderation in. Good bye! and Enjoy your temp ban, hopefully it cools you off from ranting and disrespecting our content authors simply because you don't like a certain faction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KASKADE View Post
    I think to define exactly what it is:
    I absolutely hate the Horde. I would never roll a Horde character, and I think people that play the Horde are weird- I mean the races are monsters. Orc, Minotaur, UNDEAD? Maybe it's because I have an old school view of RPGs from playing Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy as a kid. RPGs are fantasy games about being a hero. There is nothing heroic about the Horde. Even their heroism buff literally isn't heroism...it's blood lust.
    I'm sorry for your narrowmindedness, but the alliance isn't immune to what you described. For every Uther there's an Arthas, and for every Grom... Well, there's Grom. I think the point is illustrated fairly well.

    And as for the entire Alliance Vs Horde thing, I think Krenian said it best. Lets take a deep breath and relaaaaaaaaaaaax, its only the internet.

  12. #32
    If you get that up in arms over an offhand comment about how the Horde is better than the Alliance, I highly suggest you never begin following professional sports.

    This argument is stupid.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    If you get that up in arms over an offhand comment about how the Horde is better than the Alliance, I highly suggest you never begin following professional sports.

    This argument is stupid.

    You started it
    Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably

  14. #34
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    Damn people don't get Alliance jokes, bad sarcastic jokes but still jokes ... if you watch Legendary After Dark you can see Lore plays Alliance too.

    Lets talk about Dungeon Journal ... I want a blue response, I mean a Lore response on my questions, lol !

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    What I dont really understand is why people are angry with DJ (dungeon journal) but they are perfectly fine with PTR?
    A summary written description of the bosses is too much but allowing guilds to actually kill the boss on PTR is fine.
    My english is not my native language, hence I dont have all the words with me, but it should be an irony up there.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawer View Post

    Lets talk about Dungeon Journal ... I want a blue response, I mean a Lore response on my questions, lol !
    Lore > any blue.

    Blizz created the bosses, the bosses are blizz's toons, blizz in the first incarantion of the DJ was telling us exactly how to beat them. While other sites offered nearly the same advise, those sites were not always perfect.

    Now let me ask this: would you want the person you are fighting telling you how to defeat them? Would you want the coach of the other team telling you what play they are going to use next?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by pviorels View Post
    What I dont really understand is why people are angry with DJ (dungeon journal) but they are perfectly fine with PTR?
    A summary written description of the bosses is too much but allowing guilds to actually kill the boss on PTR is fine.
    My english is not my native language, hence I dont have all the words with me, but it should be an irony up there.
    Simple answer, Blackwing Lair. IIRC, The folks over at EJ convinced blizzard not to put blackwing lair on the PTR back in vanilla and when it released it was the one true debacle this game has ever seen, one of the buggiest releases to date.

    Something is always lost between blizzards internal servers and live servers, for example when 1/2 the playerbase is experiencing the exact same bug and blizzard tells us after extensive internal testing they cannot reproduce it. Then the next day a blue post says that he himself on live servers experienced the bug and they still have no idea how to make it happen on internal servers.

    Player testing will always be a huge part of MMOs if we want true quality control. That is just a fact of life



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pviorels View Post
    What I dont really understand is why people are angry with DJ (dungeon journal) but they are perfectly fine with PTR?
    I'm not, and I don't like the spoilers MMO-champion does either. I like my content fresh.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    Something is always lost between blizzards internal servers and live servers, for example when 1/2 the playerbase is experiencing the exact same bug and blizzard tells us after extensive internal testing they cannot reproduce it. Then the next day a blue post says that he himself on live servers experienced the bug and they still have no idea how to make it happen on internal servers.

    Player testing will always be a huge part of MMOs if we want true quality control. That is just a fact of life
    God I hate this. I've spent the last 5 years spec-ing changes to our online systems used by our field staff then testing the changes and then training staff on how to use them. There are about 4 that test, 9 programmers, and at peak use, 1500 field staff.

    We get bugs in the software that we can't recreate on testing, training, or live servers because the bug only appears when accessing it from outside of our campus. The simple fact is, 12 million users (err... 11.4 million) will find every bug in the game. Even 100 testers will find 70%.

    ****

    And why PTR is different from Dungeon Journals - it's because - Players are creating the information to diseminate, it's not Blizzard hand-feeding you. And even then, the information is imperfect. It may be a minor difference with a huge perception difference, but MMOs are about the experience, if it takes away from the expereince, the DJ is not a good thing.

    Of course gating the DJ, say release 1 month after a boss kill, makes the most sense to me. You have 1 month to fight for 2nd/3rd/etc before the information comes out. Top-end compeition stays where it is, the fight becomes a little more accessible to everyone else.
    An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer

  20. #40
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    The fights also need to be tested on the PTR because players will sometimes do things that Blizz would never think of doing or that would cause a problem.
    I have a friend that works for Blizz that told me of an unusual bug once where a raid boss was going berserk whenever a group entered his area. The internal team could not replicate the action so the watched when the group entered. It turned out one of the group had a Haunted memento which was putting that person in combat and the boss being the only enemy in the room was concluding "he must be in combat with me" and attacking.
    So because of things like this and because people think differently the fights need to be tested from as many different views as possible to avoid future problems.
    "It's always the Healer's fault; unless it's the Tanks fault, just ask the DPS'er in purples doing 5k!"

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