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Thread: so firelands is on the ptr?

  1. #21
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    I don't understand why you would complain about who has an easier job to be honest.

    That is something that I always had an issue with my melee friends; although I played one, I never got the point of why you would complain about who has an easier job. Does it really matter? The point of a raid is to defeat the boss and get it done as a team. Who cares if you have a harder time at it. If you do, and you can still beat some ranged in the DPS meters, be proud of that and move on.

    The term melee unfriendly should be renamed "A melee challenge."

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  2. #22
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    Within reason. The following diagram stretches reason a little bit:

    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  3. #23
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    To be honest, a lot of it is honestly trial and error, where you learn the fight and start utilizing the tools you have to keep up with the damage required to kill the boss.

    I find that a lot of people who consider themselves in a phase or a fight that is 'melee unfriendly' don't use all of their skills at their resources. You just need to find the right tools to help you pass it.

    I'll full admit: some of the fights will be beyond scope for Melee. Top guilds have brought this up before where Melee is just absolutely detrimental to boss fights. But I honestly cannot see it being as bad as it was; Every time I got to a fight where it was bad for a melee, I stayed up in the top five of a 25 man raid.

    I just don't buy it.

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PimpJuice4 View Post
    anyone tried it yet,im wondering if blizzard is continuing with there trend of making things melee unfriendly or is firelands actually more melee friendly then current raids

    my ptr account got banned a long time ago so i cant get on the ptr and try it out or i would
    The only fights that i would ever say are easier for ranged are fights where the boss runs away from you.

    Also. saying that because you were 12/12 in wrath and now you are 10/12 says nothing about the difficulty of being melee... it does say everything about player/raid skill.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krenian View Post
    To be honest, a lot of it is honestly trial and error, where you learn the fight and start utilizing the tools you have to keep up with the damage required to kill the boss.

    I find that a lot of people who consider themselves in a phase or a fight that is 'melee unfriendly' don't use all of their skills at their resources. You just need to find the right tools to help you pass it.

    I'll full admit: some of the fights will be beyond scope for Melee. Top guilds have brought this up before where Melee is just absolutely detrimental to boss fights. But I honestly cannot see it being as bad as it was; Every time I got to a fight where it was bad for a melee, I stayed up in the top five of a 25 man raid.

    I just don't buy it.
    No, I absolutely agree. You do melee because you enjoy melee. You take the challenges given to you and figure out how to overcome them, because that's what's fun for you. If it's not fun for you, roll a ranged class. I personally like melee.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loganisis View Post
    Council - Just bench your melee. Terrestra, I hate you so much. Avoid eruptions, grab debuff, avoid eruption, land hit, avoid eruption, grab other debuff, get out of raid because of lightning rod, avoid eruption, grab other debuff, avoid eruption, land hit, avoid.... LOL
    Actually since the hotfix you want a lot of melee



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    Actually since the hotfix you want a lot of melee
    The hotfix affected how melee deal with Terrestra?
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
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  8. #28
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    whats wrong with melee on terrestra? I was talking about phase 3 (the chain lightning not hitting melee anymore)

    We always do all ranged on arion and all melee on terrestra



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    whats wrong with melee on terrestra? I was talking about phase 3 (the chain lightning not hitting melee anymore)

    We always do all ranged on arion and all melee on terrestra
    As Logan originally said:

    "Avoid eruptions, grab debuff, avoid eruption, land hit, avoid eruption, grab other debuff, get out of raid because of lightning rod, avoid eruption, grab other debuff, avoid eruption, land hit, avoid.... LOL"

    Personally I don't mind that kind of thing on my rogue and think it's fun, but it's a much bigger challenge than "Find Arion when he teleports."

    The eruptions are much more annoying to me as a tank, since to avoid them, I can't just strafe outside of them before they go off to avoid them. I have to find the one open spot in the circle around the mob. So if I'm running for a debuff location and eruption comes up (every few seconds), I have to stop, run around to the right spot and stand there until it goes off, then continue running, or just get hit by the eruption, taking extra damage and knocking me into the air where I can't move for a second or two anyway. Real pain in the ass. I don't know if it works the same for melee dps.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
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    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reev View Post
    Within reason. The following diagram stretches reason a little bit:

    YES...I AM A SHAMAN!

    Of course, my damage is worthless(ish) during dark (and green) anyway...so I have that...going? for me?

  11. #31
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    I confess, I have never understood why they felt it appropriate to give shaman the best interrupt in the game. It might have made sense if it were just enhancement shaman, but since it also elemental shaman doesn't compute. Here was a job role that distinguished 'melee' from 'ranged' (in that no ranged dps had a short cd interrupt). You could 'challenge melee' by requiring a 10 second interrupt, or require melee to do a rotation by requiring a 5 second interrupt. It seems that the encounter designers in this tier were particularly into the idea of 'challenging interrupt rotations' as seen in maloriak and nef (esp. heroic). But anyway, it seems totally odd that actually Elemental Shamans suddenly appeared right near the top of the 'optimal interrupter list'.

    Incidentally, it seems to me that arcane storm cast time got stealth nerfed? Or was it just my framerate getting better?

  12. #32
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    My group is 8\13 heroic 10 man with 3 melee (nef down, but not conclave), and I have to say...honestly, the only heroic that is harder on melee is conclave so far.

    It is only harder because of the adds on the nature platform without a frost dk. It is so hard to actually dps those down and still get out if they do not die before they AOE (because of the difference in how they spawn, it goes from either they all die 3 seconds before the AOE to up to 3 still being alive when it pops).

    Otherwise, I would say this expansion is pretty balanced for melee. We haven't tried council yet, and I have heard nasty things about it, but our melee has been a pretty strong asset for us so far. Our ret pally has good backup heals, bop, bubble and other useful raid tools, our rogue can tricks, feint, cloak, etc, and our warrior can actually sword and board tank some adds, do decent healing on himself, and is our strongest AOE. Oh, and all 3 have awesome, short cooldown interrupts.

    Our two ranged are a mage and a hunter. Both have good CC, the hunter can MD, and the mage...gives us 3% damage?

    Honestly, when it comes down to it, melee have way more raid utility. Ranged are better for dps if they don't have to move and are great if the fight requires you to spread...but otherwise, I like my melee.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    Incidentally, it seems to me that arcane storm cast time got stealth nerfed? Or was it just my framerate getting better?
    Yeah, they added a lead up to his cast now. Honestly, it was a welcome change to me. An extra .5 seconds before the AOE went off would have worked just as well. I am the main tank, but generally hit the interrupts on that AOE. It was really really annoying when it would tick in less than half a second. Even the slightest bit of lag could cause it to be nearly uninterruptable (at least before 1 tick hit).
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    Incidentally, it seems to me that arcane storm cast time got stealth nerfed? Or was it just my framerate getting better?
    It was nerfed recently. I believe you get an extra second before it starts doing dmg now. Maybe more?

  14. #34
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    Release Aberrations cast time was increased from 1 second to 1.5. Arcane Storm now has a 0.5-1 sec cast time before it starts channeling.

  15. #35
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    That's what I figured - it just happened to coincide with me getting a significant jump in FPS and I was left thinking 'was that castbar always there?'.

    Nice feedback Rudulpho - good to hear from someone that's actually tried it rather than simply speculated about what it might be like. This is another big part of the issue. I'm fairly sure that the OP has no first hand experience of 'melee unfriendly' raid encounters and is just repeating noises people make on forums... and that's quite a common thing.

  16. #36
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    @swelt: They do have to interrupt their casts a LOT to interrupt though, would pretty much fuck up your DPS, something melee don't have much of an issue with (as all their abilities are instant).
    But that said, Enh Shaman interrupting FTW
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    @swelt: They do have to interrupt their casts a LOT to interrupt though, would pretty much fuck up your DPS, something melee don't have much of an issue with (as all their abilities are instant).
    But that said, Enh Shaman interrupting FTW
    Except that rogues, DKs, and feral druids use kind of important resources for their interrupts. Mana is pretty inconsequential.
    Kathy, I said, "I'm lost" though I knew she was sleeping
    I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
    Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
    They've all gone to look for America

  18. #38
    I don't understand why you would complain about who has an easier job to be honest.

    That is something that I always had an issue with my melee friends; although I played one, I never got the point of why you would complain about who has an easier job. Does it really matter? The point of a raid is to defeat the boss and get it done as a team. Who cares if you have a harder time at it. If you do, and you can still beat some ranged in the DPS meters, be proud of that and move on.
    That's just it, when you feel like you're a detriment to the team because it seems the team would meet with success much easier if you could be replaced with another spec/class, it gets frustrating.

    I felt that way on my resto druid on some of our progression fights (H-Nef comes to mind), but recent changes have made it much better.

  19. #39
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    I think there is also a difference between a fight being "easier" to play for a certain role and a fight getting easier if you have more melees/ranged. Which is a huge difference.

  20. #40
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    I think the ratios can be against melee in 10-mans more than 25; my 10-man team runs with 3 melee - all plate-wearers, all tanks, 2 of which have dps off-specs... in situations where we are short one regular ranged dps and have to substitute a melee, its much more unbalancing than in 25m and the healers really have a whinge about how this makes their lives miserable.
    I think part of the issue is the reduced range AOE which can result; equaling greater likelihood of damage being taken by non-tanks if whatever is being AOE'd doesnt die quick enough, moreso than melee 'standing in shit and dying/being useless in certain fights/getting us all killed' which are the most often cited reasons.
    Omnitron & Elementium monstrosity are the two fights I feel most useless in as melee; the constant running around and downtime on my DPS combined with being at greater risk from environmental hazards makes me feel like a burden compared to ranged DPS, who can just pick an ideal spot to stand and focus on their DPS rotation instead of being paranoid, vulnerable, and spending more time running towards or away from a boss than doing damage.

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